voicing new hammers (prevoicing)

[Gevaert Pierre]

Hi David,

Could you elaborate your technique of prevoicing? I suppose this item has
already been discussed often, but this is for me one of the most difficult
things in our job.
I am using currently Abel hammers and often have a tone that is to dull to
my taste. (voicing: about 8 x deep needling in each shoulder and about 6 x
undeep in the crown with three needles) As i am not an expert, is there a
chance that i have already been needling to much with this technique or
should i deepneedle more to get a fuller (but not less bright) tone?
As i understand, a new (abel) hammer should always be needled? btw i use the
method wich is explained in the Reblitz.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Pierre Gevaert
Belgium
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos@earthlink.net>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: voicing new hammers


> The purpose of my post was to point out that there is a baseline for
> preparing hammers that transcends taste.  Perhaps that is sticking my neck
> out in times where relativism seems to reign supreme, but I'm not afraid
to
> make a value judgment here.  Beyond that baseline preparation there is
still
> a lot of room for individual taste.  My overall opinion is that comes
mostly
> in the area of attack.
>
> When I said I could see no reason for leaving a Renner/Abel hammer
> unresilient I am making a conjecture, in this case, that the person who
said
> to leave them alone was probably not responding to the lack of resilience
of
> the hammer (if it was unresilient, I don't really know what condition that
> set of hammers was in), but the improvement over what had been on there
> before.  Since I prevoice those types of hammer before I put them on, it's
> not an issue for me.  All hammers of that type get some voicing.  And all
of
> them benefit from creating more resilience.  If the person were to insist
> that they liked them with no further attention, I would probably still
> suggest that I at least even them out.  The problem often comes that the
> individual doesn't play the piano at all levels when trying it out.  They
> might sit down and mezzopiano it through some little ditty and it sounds
> just fine.  But force it a bit, and the lack of attention creating the
right
> underlying texture rears its ugly head.  If that situation were to arise
> (and it has) I always try and educate through demonstration.  So far,
nobody
> has asked me to leave those inconsistencies unattended.  And I would not
be
> inclined to do it even if they said they could live with it.  Unless they
> were really insistent that they wanted it that way I would not feel that
the
> job was finished until I had addressed those finer points.  I don't think
> that doing so would change the overall character of the tone but it
> certainly would refine it.
>
> If they hire me to do the job, they hire me, in part, for my expertise in
> this area.  I explain beforehand what I will do, the voicing that is
> required as part of the job, and the follow up after a certain amount of
> playing to go over it again.
>
> I am talking about replacing hammers above.  When I encounter a piano for
> the first time and I see the need for voicing, I will ask them how they
feel
> about the tone.  I'm not pushy, but if I judge that it's a piano and
player
> interested in the potential of the instrument, I will give them an overall
> assessment after tuning of the general condition.  I am constantly
surprised
> at the number of people who never knew regulation and voicing was an
option
> with a piano.  They just thought what they heard was what they got.  That
> kind of assessment combined with inquiries about their goals for the type
of
> instrument they want have led to a number of rebuilding jobs.  I am
> realistic and fair.  If somebody has a Lester spinet (and I do have a
couple
> of people who not only have them, but love them), I would not try and talk
> them into a rebuilding job.  There are times when it's best to leave well
> enough alone.
>
> David Love
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Kdivad@AOL.COM>
> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: August 12, 2002 7:26 PM
> Subject: Re: voicing new hammers
>
>
> In a message dated Sun, 11 Aug 2002 9:39:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> davidlovepianos@earthlink.net writes:
>
> >
> >
> > I don't know David, you kind of lost me on your point, and I think you
> > missed mine on the MacDonald's this  I never suggested the tech did
> > something wrong by not voicing them.  As I mentioned in an earlier post,
> > it's their piano and they have to play it so make them happy.  I have
left
> > hammers alone on many occasions when I thought attention was needed but
> the
> > customer said they liked it as it was.  But think of it this way.  You
> take
> > your car in because it's running like sh--.  The mechanic changes the
> points
> > and plugs and let's you start it up.  It runs a hell of a lot better
than
> it
> > did before and you are thrilled.  He says, "well do you want me to set
the
> > timing".  You say, "hell no, it's running great now, why fu--, with it".
> > Should he say okay and let you drive it out?  Or should he try and
explain
> > the importance of setting the timing?  Personally, I'd rather he just
did
> > what was considered a necessary part of the job.  That is, unless he
> didn't
> > know how to set the timing.  Then I guess I'd rather he left it alone
but
> > tell me about it so I could decide if I wanted to have someone else set
> the
> > timing.
> >
> > By the way, In 'n Out burgers are definitely better than MacDonalds, but
> > then there's no accounting for taste.
> >
> > David Love
> >
>
>
> David, thanks for your reply, I am a little puzzled though because when
> reading your original post I definitly got the impression that you thought
> the technician did do something wrong.  I believe you said that "you
> couldn't see any reason for leaving a Renner/Abel hammer unresilient or a
> Steinway hammer to soft."  I believe one valid reason is that the customer
> prefered the hammer just the way it sounded, unvoiced. Your example about
> the mechanic also gave me the impression that you felt the tech did
> something wrong by not voicing, even against the owners wishes. Let me use
> your mechanic scenario, suppose an owner takes his car to you for a tune
up.
> You finish everything but setting the timing and he shows up.  While his
car
> is sitting there idling a little rough he responds, "man that is just what
I
> am looking for, it sounds like I have a high performance cam in it!!"  You
> try to explain that the job is not done but he hears nothing.  Should you
> let him drive away?  Of cours!
> e you should (if the car is safe to drive).  The most you can do is
monitor
> the situation down the road.
>
> OK, you got me with the burgers.
>
> David Koelzer
> Vintage Pianos
> DFW
>
>
>