PianoDisc technology question

[Mike and Jane Spalding]

Rob,

Thanks for the informative overview.  One of my favorite CDs is "Rhacmaninov plays Rachmaninov;  The Ampico Piano Recordings 1919-29".   London #425 964-2.  Recorded in the late 1970's using Ampico rolls played on a new Estonia concert grand with a restored Ampico reproducing mechanism.  You're absolutely correct about the ability of these mechanical reproducers to deliver all the nuances of live performance.  No need to mentally make allowances for "early 20th century technology" - it stands on its own.

Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Robert Goodale <rrg@unlv.edu>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: PianoDisc technology question


> PianoDisc, (and their competitors for that matter), is based on midi 
> technology.  These are digital data, NOT music recordings.  In other 
> words you cannot just take a music CD and convert it to play on a 
> PianoDisc system.
> 
> PianoDisc recordings are made in a studio on a piano equipped with a 
> recording system, (also available as a consumer option).  In the studio 
> however, the recordings are input directly into a computer for editing 
> with midi software rather than on a control box disk.  During the 
> recording, as is in most midi applications, the system not only records 
> which note is being played at any given time and how long plays, but 
> also the note's velocity, (i.e. volume).  Simultaneously the sustain 
> pedal data is also recorded.  Once the artist is finished and the data 
> is in the computer the recording can be edited using midi sequencing 
> software.  The editing is not intended for changing the recording or 
> adding/taking away expression, but to simply remove subtle mistakes and 
> nuances that the pianist may have made.  This is done with the artists 
> approval and personal satisfaction and not necessarily PianoDisc's. 
>  Once the editing has been completed it is ready to be converted to 
> PianoDisc's system format and put onto disks for distribution.
> 
> There is one exception to this process, that being their "live 
> orchestrated" disks which include not only the digital piano data but 
> also "live accompaniment" from other musicians.  These recordings are 
> made in the same way as any normal audio recording would me made in a 
> studio other than that the piano portion is recorded in the same midi 
> digital method mentioned above rather than acoustically.  After editing 
> the digital piano portion the accompaniment audio tracks and the digital 
> piano data are rejoined as single recording and burned onto CD ready to 
> play.
> 
> The PianoDisc recordings of famous dead pianists such Horowitz, 
> Rubinstein, and Rachmaninoff are transcribed from old reproducing player 
> piano rolls.  Specifically, these would be from systems capable of 
> playing the dynamics such as the Ampico, DuoArt, and Welte players. 
>  Many now deceased artists made recordings for these pianos.  The 
> dynamic expression of these recordings are remarkable.  Many piano techs 
> poo poo these pianos thinking that they were little more than basic old 
> players.  They in fact were not.  Unfortunately there are only a handful 
> of rebuilders in the country experienced and capable of rebuilding these 
> pianos so that they play they way they did when new.  If you listen to 
> one of these fully and properly restored instruments play these 
> recordings as intended it would knock you off your feet in amazement at 
> how capable and lifelike they really are, particularly when considering 
> the early 20th century technology involved.  The transcribed PianoDisc 
> recordings from these old systems are still probably less than perfect 
> but with at least most of the expression present and having been played 
> but the artists themselves they are quite remarkable treasures.  It is a 
> blessing that we have these recordings preserved today.  It is also a 
> tragedy that many of these fine old reproducing players are lost forever 
> by dealers, technicians, and rebuilders who have raped them by 
> discarding their player systems in order to sell them quickly in the 
> name of money.  Once they are gone they are gone forever and can never 
> be replaced.  To learn more about these reproducing pianos and their 
> recordings I would recommend the following books:
> 
> "Re-Enacting The Artist" by Larry Givens, (currently out of print but 
> worth it's weight in gold if you can find it.)
> 
> "Encyclopedia of Automatic Musical Instruments" by Q. David Bowers, 
> (wanders in and out of print and expensive but well worth the money.)
> 
> "Player Piano Servicing and Rebuilding" by Arthur A. Reblitz (in print, 
> mostly technical, but excellent information and a must for restorations).
> 
> "The Golden Age of Automatic Musical Instruments" By Arthur A. Reblitz. 
>  (This is his latest work and is specifically on the history of 
> automatic music machines, their recordings, and their abilities.  It 
> took Art over ten years of research to assemble and is also the only 
> book available with detailed color photographs of these machines both 
> assembled and disassembled.  Again very expensive but well worth it if 
> you are seriously interested in learning about these machines).
> 
> 
> Rob Goodale, RPT
> Las Vegas, NV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles Neuman wrote:
> 
> >I got into a discussion with someone about whether you can take any
> >recording and retrieve enough data from it to make a good playback on a
> >player system, including dynamics. From PianoDisc's website, this is what
> >they offer:
> >
> >   Our CD Music Library contains songs in every category of music. The
> >   highly acclaimed and ever-expanding Artist Series includes recordings
> >   by today's top performers. Our Masterpiece Collection contains
> >   classical selections performed by some of the legendary pianists of the
> >   20th century, including Vladimir Horowitz, Arthur Rubinstein and Sergei
> >   Rachmaninoff.
> >
> >The question is, how did they get this data? Was it a painstaking process
> >of trial and error for each recording until they got it right? Or do they
> >have the technology to easily convert any recording into digital data that
> >would faithfully reproduce a piano performance on a PianoDisc system?
> >Anybody know?
> >
> >Charles Neuman
> >PTG Assoc, Long Island - Nassau
> >
> 
> 
>