Terry, Well then I may misunderstand your feel, and apologize to seem rude, but that makes me think of how I felted when in front of supposed good pianos that are almost always showing flaws and defect that we would not be expecting. I still prefer working on them because of the sound expected, but I will not rant on them, too time consuming. Beside I suspect that your US S&S have a lot of defects, and it is fairly understandable in a land where the green bill is of so much concern. I believe too that many experienced techs are not writing anymore on the forum, because of these kind of critical comments, even if they are true. It is not of your fault particularly, but the words there lacks of deepness too often. Good luck with your soundboard, that is a very interesting project and it is self honorable (not sure of the world). P.S. My brother violinist is very friend with his violin maker, and he build himself an alto (named "Artaban" !). This is a tricky work , but the instrument plays well and he is very proud of it ! Regards. Isaac OLEG > -----Message d'origine----- > De : owner-pianotech@ptg.org [mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]De la part > de Farrell > Envoye : dimanche 12 mai 2002 05:41 > A : pianotech@ptg.org > Objet : Re: 1969 Steinway L CBS? > > > Wahoo, Isaac! I just wanted to say, that my past posts were not > an expression of frustration at how to get these instruments to > work/sound well, but rather just very simply an observation of > mine as to their general condition. That's all. > > Wereas I am well aware of my position on the steep slope of the > learning curve, I have been able to accumulate some basic skills > that allow me to make most any sloppy piano work quite better for > the average Joe. In fact, I have posted before on how much I love > those un-serviced-for-30-years Acrosonics and old uprights. I can > do one or two of those a day and have a very happy customer and a > well padded wallet! > > I think I am now done with this brand X................discussion. > > Tomorrow............back to soundboards! > > Woops. It's Mother's Day. Guess we'll get the old barbie going! > Maybe some grouper? > > Terry Farrell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Isaac OLEG SIMANOT" <oleg-i@wanadoo.fr> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 2:12 PM > Subject: RE: 1969 Steinway L CBS? > > > > Terry, > > > > Now that I begin to have a somewhat bigger back of tricks than , say 20 > > years ago, when I find an instrument that I feel is willing to give some > > musical quality and pleasure to the owner, I am much more > accepting a lot of > > problems as lousy regulation, insufficient voicing, problems > due to age or > > bad condition (extra damp or dry), etc, and I will fight (well , not too > > hard) to obtain an instrument that gives pleasure to me and the owner. > > > > Happily, it is often a matter of a few hours, to shape a bit > the hammers, > > mate to strings, check regulation fast, give back some resiliency in the > > hammers, tune, voice, and then all the remaining quality that > was intended > > to be there when the piano was build begin to show. > > > > Sometime this work have never really been done, and the piano > sound almost > > as if it where new. > > > > But I believe I know the feeling you have, it is mostly > frustration of not > > being able to have an enough good result while working on supposed good > > pianos. Then you accuse the crown, down bearing, capo noise, > bridge pins, > > and so on .. > > Don't take it bad, I've done the same before. > > > > There is an only answer : learn to do the things at the best > level possible. > > You will see that all is much simple after that (but it still > is hard work > > sometime). > > > > Take care , > > > > The best > > > > Isaac OLEG > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Isaac OLEG SIMANOT" <oleg-i@wanadoo.fr> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 5:10 PM > Subject: RE: 1969 Steinway L CBS? > > > > Wahoo Terry ! : > > > > Hand fitted pin block will change the plate location ? > > > > On what pianos ? > > > > When capstan lines are to be moved this is mainly to change the leverage > > because the hammers that one want to use are too heavy to lend to an > > acceptable Balance Weight (DW+UW /2) ? > > > > Don't look too far. Capstan may be a little out of right line because of > > play in the machine used to guide the parts while drilled. > > > > The angled whippen may be replaced with a vertical one too. > > > > Rant : > > > > It is wonderful on this forum, that is enough to write a lot > about all and > > everything to became an experienced person. ( Someone with such > intensive > > experience !) > > > > I personally work in this trade for long enough to begin to > understand that > > I am at last a little experienced. > > But this have come by a long road, as for anyone, and of course > to make it > > short it is mostly an education question. Something that we > can't find in > > books or on a forum, even if all the material is probably there yet. > > > > And I don't believe no more in the self training (but for > tuning, and there > > we need someone to play the instrument). Learning by ourselves > only is a BIG > > loss of time, even if of course we are always alone in our process of > > amelioration. > > > > End of Rant. > > > > Got nothing personally against you , Terry (since I've read > that you almost > > burned your elector's card) , but as you show so much enthusiasm, and > > express strong general opinions , then, if I remember correctly > you are just > > beginning with some luck to produce a decent work since a few, > so restrain a > > bit yourself as for generalities. > > > > I am an hypersensitive kind of guy, my primal source of > information around > > me is sound, then, touch, and then only look. I am actually > very grateful to > > Andre to show me how hammers are to be treated to produce a fine tone, > > eventually even on not so good instruments. This and a few important > > Principe's in regulation, have made my life very pleasing > recently. Even on > > worn pianos, screwed hammers, far than ideal situation, having > learn to work > > with a good procedure makes things a lot easier. > > > > You can work for years and be happy with your work, and put the > fault to the > > piano, but if you are frustrated on so many instruments, as > I've been, you > > may ask yourself why. > > > > Generally, the most frustration when in front of a new piano > come from the > > precedent tech, that apply incorrect methods, sometime hurting the > > instrument more than necessary, so think about it, how do you > leave these > > 'problematic pianos' ? > > > > You are lucky in the US that there are some very high level > techs and that > > they are willing to show you what they know, or part of it. The learning > > process is well probably way faster than in our traditional old > fashioned > > Europe (when I was young technician, some old techs just > stopped working if > > you came in their room) . So I would say that you may learn > with them, and > > not loose your time believing that things are at hand. > > > > My best > > > > Isaac OLEG > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : owner-pianotech@ptg.org > [mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]De la part de > > Farrell > > Envoye : samedi 11 mai 2002 19:51 > > A : pianotech@ptg.org > > Objet : Re: 1969 Steinway L CBS? > > > > > > I'm lumping 1098s and the little bit smaller consoles together. > > > > Some. Some. Some. "...some Steinway grand pianos exhibit (verdigris, > > Teflon action centers, poor action geometry), I have much > respect for their > > grand pianos." > > > > My understanding is that much of that is related to the hand-fitted > > pinblock (that is also fitted to the case) that in turn CAN cause small > > variations in the plate location, and then when the action stack is > > installed, it may be located too far forward or toward the rear from > > optimal, and then of course the capstans are likewise poorly located. On > > SOME of their grand pianos. I believe that is one of the > reasons why you see > > David Stanwood, et. al. sometimes moving capstan lines. > > > > Terry Farrell > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Richard Brekne" <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no> > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 10:40 AM > > Subject: Re: 1969 Steinway L CBS? > > > > > > > Well, its nice to know that you are talking strictly about > one model of > > > Steinway instruments, and an upright at that. I got the > feeling that the > > > discussion carried on by others was a bit more inclusive > then that. But > > > seriously Terry. I have seen at least a hundred 1098's in > my years over > > > there, and never ran into the severe problems you talk > about. Certainly > > > not more then I see in other decently put together > instruments. So all I > > > can say is that my own experience with these instruments is quite > > > different then yours. While I am not a particular fan of so > called high > > > end uprights to begin with, I certainly wouldnt hesitate in > recommending > > > the fine Steinway name to anyone. > > > > > > btw... where is it well documented that Steinway grands have "poor > > > action geometry" ? > > > > > > RicB > > > > > SNIP > > >
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