Info on 1890 Ivers and Ponds piano

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In a message dated Sat, 18 May 2002 12:45:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "D.L. Bullock" <dlbullock@att.net> writes:

>Dear Mary Beth,
>
>I would like to respond to some information and misinformation from some
>list members concerning your Ivers and Ponds upright piano.  Having restored
>many of them and having specialized in "old uprights" among other things,
>for umm, thirty years now, I have a few bones to pick with a few long held
>myths here.
>
>One person puts it:   "I'm just learning piano technology; I've been on this
>mailing list for six months or so."
>
>This speaks volumes and while I cannot quibble with the places they sent you
>to research, I must take issue with some of the views.  While this person is
>quoting things that are often heard myths, that does not make them totally
>enlightened views.
>
>I quote:
>"""My general sense from reading this list is that Ivers and Ponds was a
>good quality brand, however there were thousands of upright pianos made
>around the turn of the century which are still available all around the
>country, surprisingly enough.  Most had a so-called "birdcage" action, which
>was not a good design.
>
>Yes Ivers is a VERY good quality brand.  Yes there were thousands of upright
>pianos made. NO NO NO there were not that many bird cage uprights.  The bird
>cage makes most technicians run screaming from the room pulling out their
>hair.  It was a missing link between the first pianos and the modern pianos.
>The bird cage piano actions were in mostly European pianos.  I have restored
>several of them.  If they have a cast iron plate they are as good as any
>antique piano for total restoration.  Action parts, though, are not
>standard.  All those little action parts can be releathered and refelted and
>made like new.  The ones without cast iron plates or straps, would be
>considered for dumpster but they CAN be restored if you want to spend the
>money on a museum piece.
>
>Ivers and Pond did not make a birdcage or overdamper action that I am aware
>of, and I have worked on several from before 1890.
>
>I quote:
>"""Uprights in general have very little resale value, while grand pianos
>made before 1920 or so have a high value."""
>
>This is an extremely misinformed view.  Yes, untouched uprights have a
>resale value of about $50.00 while I have purchased grand pianos from the
>era mentioned for as little as $100-$400---not a very high value.  I just
>sold a restored upright off-brand for in the neighborhood of $4,000.  It was
>on sale I had kept it on the floor long enough.  If a fine upright piano is
>restored to like-new condition, then it will bring more than many new ones,
>but less than a new one of the same full size.
>
>"""  Uprights are generally not worth rebuilding"""
>
>I must take extreme exception to this statement.  MANY UPRIGHT PIANOS ARE
>MOST CERTAINLY WORTH REBUILDING.  You have to know what your values are.  Do
>you refer to money alone, or do you refer to musical quality or tone?
>Musically these uprights including your Ivers and Pond can beat many brand
>new studio pianos hands down in tone, richness and fullness.  I have had
>many that sound better than many new grands.  To get the tone found in these
>median-high quality uprights you would have to get a full sized upright
>Bechstein, Bosendorffer, Steinway or Baldwin.  You will pay $8K up to $35K
>or more for these.  They are now a specialty made for piano teachers and
>serious piano students.  Rebuild an old Ivers and Pond and you spend a
>fraction of that amount.  In a good shop such work would be over $4K but
>seldom as much as $8K
>
>I usually have several being rebuilt at all times.  I have often been a year
>behind trying to get them all completed.  We do not fix up or refurbish.  We
>do all new piano actions, recrown the soundboards, restring and refinish.
>We seldom have one to sell because we are so busy doing pianos for
>customers.  Our finished product looks and sounds exactly like Grandma saw
>and heard it when she bought it new.
>
>I got started doing this on players because they take so much more abuse
>that they really MUST have all new piano actions or they turn the old one
>into shards of piano action in a few years after the player system is
>restored.  Players will definitely bring the bigger bucks if they are
>guaranteed for five years or more as our shop and others do.
>
>If you want to rebuild your Ivers and Pond and sell it for scads of money,
>forget it.  You are going for an extreme niche market because all modern
>piano salesmen convince everyone that any piano over 20 years old should be
>dynamited or burned.  They have so convinced the general public of the truth
>of this lie that selling old ones is slow.  I do try to keep one or two on
>the floor but they always sell.  Musicians just go nuts for them.
>
>"""while grands are."""(worth rebuilding)
>
>In the last ten years I have trashed more grand pianos for not being worth
>rebuilding than I have uprights.  They are more valuable for digital
>keyboard desks than they are rebuilt.  There is poor quality even in grands.
>
>Concerning the list of maladies this list member ticks off, they are all
>worst-case scenario and will rarely be all found on the same piano.  When I
>am going to restore an old upright, none of those terrible problems matter
>to me one bit.  I am replacing those things whether they look horrible or
>flawless.  They have reached the end of their lifespan.  If they are
>replaced their condition matters not.
>
>I am sorry to be on my soapbox and I do not wish to flame anyone.  I am,
>however, trying to burn down some of these strongly held myths in our
>business.
>
>D.L. Bullock
>www.thepianoworld.com
>St. Louis


Well put, we have reubuilt more  and more uprights each year over the last five years and are currently doing about 20 this year.  Our cost for a typical restoration runs about 6k to 8k though (sans soundboard).  We do make it clear to our customers that there is not much of a market for restored uprights in our area and if they ar trying to make a profit this is not a viable option.  Most of our customers have sentimental feelings for their piano and profits are not in their thoughts.  The second group of customers want to end up with an exceptional piano with a history usually costing about half of what a new comparable quality upright would cost.

David Koelzer
DFW