Dear Suzan ,
Just a fast comment for the people that don't imagine what aural
tuning act mean :
When tuning aurally , the task is to transform the piano in an EDT, so
when the taste of the tone is good, the light stop, (or the tone
lights, or any other comparison).
That is an old story and all the difficulty of our art when we try not
to fight less than good pianos.
I even tuned once (happy me !) a Baldwin spinet, and find it easier to
tune with one mute only (yes, tuning always 2 strings, never one only)
, as the piano shows its response more clearly than with only one poor
singing string that I could try with a lot of difficulty to have match
my model of justness.
Of course I understand not all tuners are tones sensitive so much, I
was born in a musical family, have somewhat "perfect " pitch, and so
on (my gosh , how pretentious I may look !).
A good aural tuner is trying to work mindless, and that is why he
(she, sorry!) is fast, efficient, and less tired than you could think,
when he works on medium quality pianos.
That is why too some try to find tempering method based on pure
intervals or on equal beatings, because these are faster to tune.
But when it comes to concert work, the refinement in tone that the
instrument allows mean much more work and is tiring for the tuner
(concentration).
Then the machine is allowing far better results than aural tuning, by
giving you a direct path to justness, while allowing you to focus more
on tone.
The VT tunings I install on the rented Steinways in Paris, often stay
on the piano till the pitch have drift under 4 or 5 cts (a few
monthes), I even had comments from another tuner that they have not
enough time to tune at that level !!!!
AT first I've find that the pleasure was lost in the act, but I
realize now that , on the contrary, we gain more than we think. This
is as if I work on a refinement pass from the start. And, more
important, the 15 min I have gained, allows me to adjust a few
elements, control the pedals, use a needle, and allows for a better
result so I really feel better after all.
> I think that the answer is hidden deep enough to be difficult to
define, but if I had to describe it, I might say that I like the
direct contact with the piano, and don't want a gadget stuck in
between us. Also, that I find blinking lights (or blinking/flipping
anything) tiring and distracting.
I too can't really tune while watching a "rule" in front of me, and
very often I put the VT on a chair or on the floor, so it is there to
confirm my feel. But I like too the game of working my pin setting on
one string so it is absolutely stable at 0.1 cts. precision (when
allowed). Just a game, you know, but a useful one.
But any ETD user may, as a generality, close the machine when he feel
in shape from time to time, and try to produce a direct tuning "on the
feel".
Many will be amazed of their results, and if some error appears, they
could look in it to understand where they come from (may be only
personal taste about a tone impression, when it comes to fifths that
is well understandable).
Talking about tone color, I understand the irregularities in the
fifths that we put in the temperament sequence when using a fifths
based one are directly related to the partial series of the notes
tuned. When striving for some quality in the faiths, that does not
mean we may align partials, even with a such a good machine as the VT
that compromise with all of them.
Fifths' taste mean something to me , and only the VT have given me
something I could accept in that regard, but still, I try at any price
to avoid the "unlive" sentiment expressed in another post.
> Third, that while I get damned tired tuning pianos far too
> much of the time, I don't seem to suffer from the "aural fatigue"
which
> people are describing. On a good long grand, it doesn't seem a
> struggle to perceive whether a note should be higher or lower. On a
crummy false spinet, it is a nuisance to try to penetrate the false
beats and inharmonicity, especially in the bass, to try to get the
least awful
> result; but I don't really see that a machine will untangle the
Gordian knot and choose the least obnoxious sound even as well as a
human ear, let
alone better.
I agree, but the VT will provide a very good compromising on any
piano. After that , the problem is more that the compromising is
putting in light all the tone flaws and defects of such, that is why
it is better then to use a tweaked temperament or tune them aurally
and musically if possible.
It may reduce fatigue by giving a false sense of a definitive result,
but I'm not sure that that is a good trade-off.
It reduce stress, not fatigue. Some are hardly stressed (not me) I
understand tuning is a state of mind, a way of not listening.
I tuned an old 1925 vertical for a little "concert" for children's in
a school, with a very good pianist and a few other instruments.
Despite 50 5 years Childs talking, I was able to arrange the tuning at
the intermission, because I hooked on the "light" of the piano. And
the results where very musical. The piano have been bring to pitch
before the concert and tuned with the VT help, and it was almost easy
to hear what notes have to be corrected.
> I think that the constant struggle to achieve clarity of sound in
> poor pianos does come back and pay dividends when tuning good ones.
I think exactly the same and the contrary, I should say the struggle
to work on good pianos pay when it comes to tune less good ones, but
this is for beginners tuners. Of course an experienced tuner will tune
a good piano as a breeze, if he know what building tone is ...
> The daily investment of energy does count for something in the end.
> One is working, after all, on clear, stable unisons and on adjusting
> octave stretch to give the roundest and fullest sound, even when
> the roundest fullest sound is still far short of gratifying.
> ("Ça laissait beaucoup à desirer" as Francis Planté murmured after
> his one and only recording session, in his home, when he was an
> advanced age ...) (Pardon my French, I was too lazy to look up
> how it really was spelled ...)
For sure many of the professional pianist have a piano as a worker may
have an electric drill , but they have not been educated enough to
maintain their instruments in shape. May be in some countries the
situation is better, but most of the pianist I worked with these last
years have "old" 10 to 30 years pianos.
And as that only recently I knew how to allow them to be in shape
from the start, I understand many techs don't see the necessity for
it.
I believe they (pianists) often are disgusted after sometime to see
that their tuner's intervention does not allow the piano to be as good
than they expect so they stop expecting something that most can't give
them. (very pretentious again :>( - sorry for this, and many techs
here have a state diploma.
> I have been wondering about something -- as an aural tuner,
> the theory of coincident partials, while understood, never
> really enters into any decisions I make. I don't say, "Ah,
> this piano needs a 6-3 octave ...
While using ETD since a few years now, I never get acquainted to it
neither, I have seen that if that theory is followed, something
unnatural is in the tone and the real beats are hidden in your brain
by the focusing on partial matching.
The problem of this approach is that reality of the tone involve more
than one string and more than one partial match. Many kind of unison
are acceptable, and they react differnetly when played with octaves,
doubles and triples. We even have here a tuner that tune on purpose
drifting unisons, their pitch change in time (up) . Using a matching
partial approach tend to fix the tone, as it limit what we hear.
On the other hand, when not aware of the theory, we tend to stretch
way too much on brilliant pianos, and depending of the season, the
piano can turn in a very harsh instrument after the seasonal drift.
" The ETD allows one to
> dissect the different partials and make octaves where
> some of them line up more or less exactly -- what I don't
> understand is why one would want them to.
Not all ETD work as that, the VT use many partials at the same time,
just as our tuner's ear does, that is why the result is much more
natural than any other. Another world, simply.
The reinforcement of certain partials at the expense of others is a
balancing
act. Doesn't each piano (or even certain registers or notes on a
single piano) have a different profile of partial strength?
Therefore, wouldn't it be better to let the ear decide how they
should be balanced? Might it not be better, sometimes, to have octave
stretches in the cracks, to
> prevent reinforcing an already too-loud and objectionable
> partial?
Yes they have different profiles, depending of the scale an the
voicing, and it is more natural to let the ear choose, but as I said,
on a harsh piano you will tend to favor too much high spectra, and
obtain a more aggressive piano in general. Only tuning by thirds will
help to temper then. That is what I find the most benefit of the EDT I
use, it helps me to not be too extreme in my choices.
But all this is theory, when we build tone, the spectra is changing a
lot, the tuning hammer works as a pencil and a gum in regard of the
spectra. That is why playing another while tuning an unison is
possible, I try to avoid partials when tuning, if too preeminent I
will mask them .
> (Ducking slightly, pulling Conrad's newest fashion creation
> over my head ...) What else can you expect from a tuning
> dinosaur, after all? Or, as I prefer to think of it:
>
> Shouldn't there be somewhere a "living museum" tuner, who
> never used the ETD, and therefore never was changed by
> its particular biases and requirements?
The tuners that I appreciated so much the tunings at Steinway's
concert, is retired now, as a matter of fact he build planes models,
and don't want to hear about pianos anymore. Another one worried a lot
someday, that I stayed a while in the room while he was tuning, and
did not present myself immediately, I believe he thought I was spying
him, while I was just hearing him as in a concert !
Being 46 I should not concur to be in the dinosaur pool yet (may I ?)
but I probably will be soon.
More younger tuner's are sometime able to produce better tunings
sooner than us, with the help of the machines, but they may not forget
that they have so much to learn too, and I suspect they will have
problems to learn other tasks (i.e. voicing ) because of the new
tuning approach these days.
Probably only me ....
All the best from France (yes your French is OK , "désirer" with the
accent).
Brotherly and colleague ally regards.
Isaac OLEG
>
> And I volunteer!
>
> Susan
>
>
>
>
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