Exactly! That's why any grease in the rep groove is not necessary or advised. A dry lube, micro-fine teflon powder etc. is the lube of choice...IMHO One of the first things I do on a complete regulation is flip the stack and clean out the grooves. David I. ----- Original message ----------------------------------------> From: Isaac OLEG <oleg-i@wanadoo.fr> To: gordon stelter <lclgcnp@yahoo.com>, Pianotech Mailing list <pianotech@ptg.org> Received: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:03:42 +0200 Subject: RE: Spring behavior >Thanks for the acid info. >I've seen the use of more elaborated greases, as cork grease, in lieu >of mutton tallow. >Anyway after a little dust have been mixed with the grease, the >benefit is gone, and friction begin to be felt too much. >Isaac OLEG >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : gordon stelter [mailto:lclgcnp@yahoo.com] >> Envoye : lundi 21 octobre 2002 15:08 >> A : oleg-i@wanadoo.fr; Pianotech >> Objet : RE: Spring behavior >> >> >> Tallow and mutton fats are highly acidic and conducive >> to causing corrosion (bronze rep springs) Better to >> use Protek and Molybdenum lubricant. >> Thump >> --- Isaac OLEG <oleg-i@wanadoo.fr> wrote: >> > Hello, >> > >> > Good points about the repetition speed , my theory >> > have some lead in >> > the wings (translated from French , may be shot in >> > the feet is OK ?). >> > >> > My thought was that the graphite grease in the >> > springs slot, as well >> > as the mutton tallow that is used on the key pins in >> > some factories, >> > can well be the artifacts that helps to even the >> > action feel, or act >> > as a security towards repetition, while not allowing >> > to repeat so fast >> > than in optimum configuration. >> > >> > For sure they slow things in the 2 cases, but the >> > final feel is then >> > more even, despite the irregularities in pinning , >> > BW, and differences >> > in ratio from note to note. >> > >> > I had the bad surprise on some actions after >> > cleaning of the slot and >> > the spring, to be obliged to re pin more than >> > expected to obtain a >> > more even touch. >> > Sure the springs are too strong immediately when we >> > clean the >> > graphite, but the jack's return will be less fast, >> > as you point out, >> > with a less strong spring. >> > >> > The slowliness in the balance lever induced by the >> > spring add a delay >> > that allows to be sure that the jack/roller contact >> > is more secure, >> > because more tension goes towards the jack. >> > >> > For sure a very objectionable reason & method. >> > >> > For the key pins in particular, I always clean them, >> > and use only >> > Teflon actually but I believe the little grease that >> > stay at the >> > balance hole helps to maintain the key in place when >> > the hole is >> > almost pulley, that is why this mutton tallow is so >> > much used actually >> > in repairs. >> > >> > Regards. >> > >> > Isaac OLEG >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > is in place first >> > >> > > -----Message d'origine----- >> > > De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org >> > > [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la >> > > part de A440A@aol.com >> > > Envoye : lundi 21 octobre 2002 12:13 >> > > A : pianotech@ptg.org >> > > Objet : Spring behaviour >> > > >> > > >> > > Oleg writes: >> > > >> > > >I used to worry about the graphite gunk in the >> > balancier >> > > slot, but have >> > > >find it to act as a regulator of the spring >> > tension, >> > > anyway when not too old. >> > > >As it slows the top of the lever it eventually >> > send more >> > > energy towards the >> > > >key , thus helping more repetition that a very >> > slippery >> > > spring that will tend >> > > >to push up the hammer too fast. >> > > >Any idea about it? >> > > >> > > Greetings, >> > > I don't believe that the increased friction at >> > the top >> > > of the spring will >> > > increase repetition speed. Under fast repetition, >> > the >> > > hammer doesn't rise >> > > from check before the jack is reset. Rather, the >> > spring >> > > uses the inertia of >> > > the hammer to increase the speed of the key >> > return. This >> > > necessitates that >> > > the spring move in the slot,(called the grub at >> > the >> > > factory), and any >> > > friction here will reduce the speed of the >> > spring's work. >> > > As friction increases at the grub, the spring >> > may be >> > > strengthened to >> > > compensate, which may put more pressure on the >> > jack to >> > > return, but the spring >> > > doesn't lift the hammer in the time it takes the >> > key to >> > > rise far enough to >> > > allow the jack to reset. (try it, put a hammer >> > into check >> > > and let go of the >> > > key as rapidly as possible, you will see the >> > hammer drop to >> > > rest without >> > > moving upwards at all. ) >> > > Also, the difference in key return speed >> > between a >> > > spring that slowly >> > > lifts the hammer and one that throws the hammer >> > off the >> > > jack is virtually >> > > nil. There is no need for a spring to be strong >> > enough to >> > > feel the recoil in >> > > the key upon the hammer's release from check. An >> > overly >> > > strong spring just >> > > creates wasteful resistance to fine escapment >> > control at >> > > pianissimo levels of >> > > play. It may force the drop to be set too low, >> > creating >> > > even more resistance >> > > during final escapement. It will also create >> > problems with >> > > checking, and a >> > > hammer that isn't checked will cause a much slower >> > key >> > > return than one that >> > > is. >> > > Regards, >> > > Ed Foote RPT >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > pianotech list info: >> > https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > pianotech list info: >> https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site >> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ >> >_______________________________________________ >pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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