Pitch Raise Speed/etc., was: Steinway vs. The Tuner

[Mike and Jane Spalding]

Terry,

Well, at 4 years you've got a 1 1/2  year head start on me.  I've got similar questions, so have paid attention to answers shen I hear them.  Haven't necessarily been able to put them into practice, but maybe they'll help you some:

>But that implies that when you adjust each pin, you will be getting the string pitch to within a cent of target.
                                                                            or
>I could simply pull every tenth string 20 cents sharp 

I think the really fast pitch raisers are doing something in between.  Jim Coleman Sr., in his class in Chicago, talked about moving each string only one time, keeping a mental note of whether it ended up a little high or a little low, and compensating on the next one.  You'd still need to have a pretty good hand, but the key to speed would be to maintain the mental discipline that if you've got it closer than it was, don't fiddle with it, just keep moving on to the next string.  I think I can do a big pitch raise faster than a small one, because I am mentally less uptight about accuracy.  If the piano is 50c flat, and I'm landing most strings within 5c, I figure I'm making enough of an improvement to justify the 30 minutes I'm spending on the pitch raise.    

>So the question is then do you base your overpulls on an initial characterization of piano pitch, or on the next >few strings as you go. I always do it on the next few strings as I go.

Yes, definitely, make your overpull calculation on the pitch of the string at the time you are tuning that string, not on where it was before you started your tuning.  This is how RCT and Tunelab do it.

New question:  I pitch raise using TL or RCT, from bottom to top, unisons as I go.  The farther up I am, the slower it goes.  Fatigue, yes.  Harder to hear and make small movements in the high treble, yes.  But mostly, clumsy handling the mutes through the top section of dampers in a vertical.  I hit this section, slow way down, and it's hard to get moving again even after I'm past the dampers.  Any hints, motivational tips, whatever?

Mike Spalding RPT


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Farrell <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: Pitch Raise Speed/etc., was: Steinway vs. The Tuner


> I agree that one will benefit from doing a separate pitch raise pass on a piano that is 4 cents flat (IMHO, even 2 cents). > 
> I have been tuning for 4 years. I am still running at a steady 30 minutes for a fairly accurate pitch raise pass. My tuning time (tuning every string, i.e. not just a touch-up) is anywhere from 45 minutes on a real nice piano that has not wandered much to about 75 minutes on nasty consoles and the like. I read many posts on the pitch raise subject where it is said "no, no, no, don't worry about accuracy here, you are just trying to get the tension up" or whatever. Well, no, you are trying to get each string pitch to within a cent or so of target - or what? If I were just trying to get overall tension up, - but I don't think that would be a great pitch raise.
> 
> Please, I am not trying to say that it must take 30 minutes to do a good pitch raise. I am posting this because I want to be faster. But I have a hard time understanding what I can do so very differently to go THREE TIMES FASTER.
> 
> And a second pitch raise topic here. I tuned a Yamaha C3 yesterday that was 3 to 5 cents flat (based on checking all the As and Ds). Another reason to do a separate pitch raise pass in this situation is that when the piano is this far off, there are likely other notes even further from target. A number of strings were 10 to 15 cents off, and one string on A#7 was 67 cents flat! I think it is analogous to the "where there is smoke there is fire" (sorry B. Clinton).
> 
> A third pitch raise topic here. I have never seen addressed the phenomenon of a piano below pitch dropping even more in pitch while pitch raising (hmmm....doesn't seem to make any sense). This especially applies to ETD users when calculating overpull. Let's say you have a piano that is uniformly 20 cents flat. Start pitch raising at A0 with your 17% and 25% overpulls. By the time you get to F5, check the pitch of the strings above F5 - they will likely be at least 30 cents flat, if not a bit more flat. > 
> And a fourth pitch raise topic here........ Oh heck, I think I'll just go clean my shop..........
> 
> Terry Farrell
>   
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Vanderhoofven" <dkvander@joplin.com>
> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 1:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Steinway vs. The Tuner, Round One (Long)
> 
> 
> SNIP
> > 
> > Did you do a pitch correction while tuning?  If so, how much pitch 
> > change?  A pitch change of more than 4 cents requires a separate tuning 
> > pass to do the fine tuning.  Do the pitch correction very quickly (10 or 20 
> > minutes max... Don't worry, you will get that fast with practice), then 
> > follow-up with a fine tuning.
> > 
> SNIP
> > 
> > Sincerely,
> > 
> > David A. Vanderhoofven
> > Joplin, MO
> > 
> > P.S.  I welcome any constructive criticism about this post.  Please let me 
> > know if I am way off base here.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
> 
> _______________________________________________
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