close enough>??

[Richard Brekne]

A440A@aol.com wrote:

>  Richard writes:
>
> << I have a feeling that tho your point goes to showing what you can actaully
> get away with... that these "worst case" possiblities are not really what you
> had
> in mind.  or what ? >>
>
> What I have in mind is that no tuner I have met can tell from listening to
> music being played on a piano if there has been a one cent drift in the
> octaves.

Well... I am not sure where you are going with this.. I can certainly guarentee
you that if you get a 1 cent drift sharp on one of the notes, and 1 cent sharp
flat on the other I will certainly hear it. Further by useing the same reasoning
you use to get this far... you could just as easily say there is no point to
useing any particular temperament... as its been demonstrated that a room full of
techs cant tell one from the other.

>  I have watched them listen and no-one has detected it, even when
> asked to listen for it.  It has happened in several of my classes around the
> country, I find a piano that is either new or really flat, I do a fast raise
> and use it for demonstration of the temperaments, and afterward I check it to
> find that there is this amount of drift and no one noticed or could hear it.

I bet we are talking about something we can relatively easily learn to listen
for. I've been on about this before... Teaching a new prospect piano tech to
listen to beats.... theres two things right off... getting them to understand
what the thing we call a "beat" is.  And once they get that "AH HA !! "
experience learning to discern more and more acurately certain beats and their
rates through whatever other noise is going on. In music I am reminded about a
story concerning Charles Ives. His father trained his ear by making him listen to
and identify chords, intervals, and notes while the window was open with all
kinds of street noise and the servants making all kinds of clatter with pots and
pans and the sort. He learned of course... to hear through all that.

>
>    Also, the farther from the center of the keyboard, the more drift there
> can be without detection.  Would you opine tht you can hear an additional 2
> cents sharpness in the top octave?

I am not sure...( we are talking "while listening to someone play a peice of
music" right ?) if its dead even from note to note. Probably yes these days if
the resolution of the piano was good. Im getting more and more sensitive to most
of these things ... thanks to ETD usage and fooling around with this 12ths
tuning.  Which tells me that tuning sensitivity is much more a matter of being
aware (and learning to be more aware) of what you are listening too then perhaps
we allow for...

>
>
> Ed Foote RPT
> www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/
> www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Richard Brekne
RPT, N.P.T.F.
UiB, Bergen, Norway
mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html