Rude Question was False Beats ...

[bruce greig]

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Re: False Beats in high treble after stringingAlan:
I recall specifically a small recent vintage Schimmel vertical that was =
incredibly pure all the way up to note 87 where there was perhaps one =
false beat, maybe two.  I don't see too many of the high end German =
pianos but in general they seem to be superior in this regard.  Some of =
the large Yamaha & Kawai uprights with full agraffes are also superior. =
Can't immediately think of any grands, and I see far more grands than =
verticals, that fall into this category, though.
Bruce=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Alan=20
  To: 'Pianotech'=20
  Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:14 PM
  Subject: Rude Question was False Beats ...


  Has there ever been a single piano, new or old, expensive or cheap, =
that didn=92t ANY false-beating strings? I have never tuned a new, =
expensive grand, nor have I ever tuned a concert piano or any 9-footer, =
and I=92ve never seen a new Steinway. All of these are kind of rare =
(non-existent) out here in the boonies so maybe my question is rude =
and/or stupid. But I have seen a lot of pianos from ancient beaters to =
crappy spinets to brand new Baldwin uprights and almost new pianos of =
many makes.

  =20

  I=92ve never heard a wholly clean-sounding piano.

  =20

  Have I just been too sheltered, or=97rude question=97are false beats =
just part of the territory, the imperfect science of piano building and =
the many compromises we put up with.

  =20

  I am in my bunker, flak jacket and helmet in place. Fire away!

  =20

  Alan R. Barnard

  Salem, MO

  -----Original Message-----
  From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On =
Behalf Of Dave Smith
  Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:33 AM
  To: Pianotech
  Subject: Re: False Beats in high treble after stringing

  =20

  Thanks for the thoughts given so far.  I will attempt to achieve a =
"quiet mind" and then go after the false beats again in a more =
methodical manner. =20

  =20

  Dave Smith

  SW FL

  PTG Associate

  =20

    ----- Original Message -----=20

    From: Paul McCloud=20

    To: 'Pianotech'=20

    Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:20 AM

    Subject: RE: False Beats in high treble after stringing

    =20

    You might check to see how much downbearing there is over the =
bridge.  A rocker gauge may not show it, but a bubble gauge or other =
more sophisticated tool will.  It=92s likely that there isn=92t much =
downbearing in that area.  I rebuilt a Ste. M some time ago, and was =
similarly disappointed with the result, with all the false beats and =
such.  I used CA instead of your epoxy, but did all the same things to =
get rid of the false beats, to no avail.  When I used my Lowell gauge to =
check that area, there wasn=92t much downbearing at all.  I had to let =
it go at that.  FWIW.

                Paul McCloud

                San Diego

    =20

    =20

    -----Original Message-----
    From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] =
On Behalf Of Keith McGavern
    Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 6:07 AM
    To: Pianotech
    Subject: Re: False Beats in high treble after stringing

    =20

    At 9:09 PM -0400 6/9/03, Dave Smith wrote:

      ... Can anyone offer me advice on what to do next to reduce the =
false beats, short of unstringing and recapping bridge, etc?  I would =
appreciate your help!

    =20

    Dave,

    =20

    I am no expert in this area, but will offer some thoughts has to how =
I would attempt to troubleshoot this matter in my mind.

    =20

    To hopefully discover the cause:

    1) pick the worst offender

    2) mute the non-speaking sections of that offender, listen.

    3) if false beat still there, determine that there is side and down =
bearing

    4) if there is, determine that the string equally leaves the both =
the bridge pin and the bridge

    5) if it does, determine that there is absolutely no movement in the =
bridge pin

    6) if all these prove to be okay and the false beat has not =
dissipated, the way the string contacts the pressure bar is certainly a =
possibility for inducing a false beat.

    7) And if after verifying all these conditions are as they should =
be, replacing the string is another option.

    =20

    You might not be able to eliminate all of the false beats, but it is =
very possible they can be blended so that no one false beat stands out =
above the others. When tuning pianos in the field, blending is utilized =
by me quite often to mask inherent discrepancies that will never be =
properly addressed.

    =20

    These are my thoughts on the matter, Dave, on chasing down the worst =
offending false beat situation.

    =20

    Rest easy in this matter. Frustration in not the master, you are.

    =20

    Keith McGavern



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