I certainly hope they will open with 30 - 50 jabs, I know I do. On the more serious side. I do use John James needles. Never thought about the hardness of a needle. What needle makers do you recommend, what size do you use, and where would you get them? David Love davidlovepianos@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: Isaac sur Noos <oleg-i@noos.fr> > To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org> > Date: 11/6/2003 10:27:33 AM > Subject: RE: Yamaha hammers > > > Hi Andre, > > About the Japanese needles, I consider now my voicing tool like a > precision device, once loaded with your needles (no colateral damage, > not even in the fingers) > > Took me some time to appreciate them, because they are so sharp/thin > and I usually break when beginning to be less concentrated (or smiling > at the passing bird ...) > > It is indeed good to know by advance that the needles will go there > exactly where you want to - less sharp needles tend to rebound on > dense felt, and we tend to be too much forceful then (and they break) > Soft needles (John James) I don't know how to use, nor why they are > used. > > Yamaha C series I have used recently where all but stone hard, and > they open very neately with 30/50 jabs. > > Till, a friend explain me he likes (for new hammers) to begin slowly > deep needle in the base of the hammers (just above the impregnated > part but in direction of the end of the fiber) , so to have a more > confident (mean denser ) material to work with when building "the > cushion" (TM) > > I may say I should be inclined to do that if I don't feel enough the > fiber reaction while doing the first needling - I understand you > instruct to leave that "battery needling" for later correction of > underpowered notes, but I've find that too much needling the shoulders > when looking for elasticity can easely tend to a bad deformation near > the crown. > > Can't the process of giving that supplement of density first give a > better control when building the cushion ? Or is a good voicer able to > get the most of a decent new hammer head without resorting to it . > > As it have been noticed, modern hammers have often not a lot of > internal tension at first. I believe the tension is there under the > form of felt compression. The deep needling conducted, releasing more > (denser) material in the middle of the hammer, creates that tension up > to some point. > > The fact that Wurzen felt is yet toning well without a lot of this > tension is of course appreciated. It is also a big advantage in humid > climates, as more inert fiber became totally mushy sounding when > Wurzen continue to sound nice. But on the other hand, the rebound on > the string being slower, some kind of tone are not allowed until the > hammer have packed down under use, I mean a few years may be. > > The Steinway techs I know have been very surprized by the change in > felt when it occurs, when treated properly the older kind felt seem to > be reactivated a lot of time, and allow more easely the superpower > that is sometime needed by these instruments) > > They where expecting Wurzen to hold less long, time seem to prove the > contrary, but they learned to needle less also I guess. > > Thanks for your comments. > > Voicing, the most important subject on earth after regulation and CO2. > > > Friendly Greetings > > > Isaac OLEG > > > > The CFIII-S has Wurzen felt, which makes all the difference in tone > > building from the start. > > > > btw, we sell Japanese needles that only break if you have > > no experience > > with voicing. > > > > > > On donderdag, nov 6, 2003, at 17:28 Europe/Amsterdam, > > cswearingen@daigger.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a few months ago, I applied an alcohol/water solution to my > > > Yamaha U1 > > > hammers because I had the same problem - couldn't get > > even a single > > > needle > > > to penetrate the hammers - they just kept breaking off. > > My U1 is only > > > about 5 years old but the hammers were like concrete. > > > > > > My intention was to soften up the hammers so I could > > needle them but > > > after > > > applying the solution, the bright/harsh tone was > > drastically brought > > > down > > > and so I decided not to needle them. I would assume that > > the needles > > > would > > > be easier to insert once the hammers have been soaked with this > > > alcohol/water solution (and allowed to dry overnight). > > > > > > Before I did this, I was constantly playing with the soft > > pedal trying > > > to > > > coax a softer/warmer sound from the instrument. I really > > love the tone > > > change after using the solution. Be careful however as > > it will bring a > > > drastic change. You will be able to play softer and get > > a much warmer > > > tone > > > but it will be at the expense of being able to get a ff > > or triple ff > > > out of > > > the instrument. For me, personally, it was a trade-off > > that was worth > > > it. > > > It's been about 6-8 weeks since I did this and the tone > > has brightened > > > up a > > > bit but it still has a much warmer pleasing tone than > > before. I should > > > mention that after I soaked the hammers and they dried, I > > shaped the > > > hammers, fine strip-sanded them with 300 grit emory > > cloth, and finally > > > ironed the hammers to a very smooth polish. > > > > > > There is also someone on this list that recommends steaming the > > > hammers. > > > Seems to me that this would have similar effect in that > > it expands the > > > fibers within the hammer. The only reason I didn't try > > steaming was > > > that, > > > for me, it was much easier to simply use the > > alcohol/water solution > > > from a > > > eye-dropper. > > > > > > Corte Swearingen > > > Chicago > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erwinspiano@aol.c > > > om To: > > > pianotech@ptg.org > > > Sent by: cc: > > > pianotech-bounces Subject: > > Re: Yamaha > > > hammers > > > @ptg.org > > > > > > > > > 11/06/2003 09:42 > > > AM > > > Please respond to > > > Pianotech > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/6/2003 6:04:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > > A440A@aol.com writes: > > >> The hammers are so hard that if you begin at the upper > > shoulder, the > > >> tension in them will tear them apart after a while. > > >> Regards, > > >> Ed Foote RPT > > > Hi Ed > > > And Yamaha builds these hammers this way > > because...............? > > > For all my debt of professional gratitude due Yamaha & > > for all there > > > ingenius wonderful pianos I can't figure this & have > > never heard an > > > explanation. Soundboard that vibrate freely DO NOT > > require hammers O > > > stone. > > > Still don't get it in Modesto.--Dale > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > > > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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