Help with "bad" tuning...need help

[pianolover 88]

A piano that's, say 100 cents flat at A4; that string is vibrating 25 cps 
slower than it should at A440, and is thus A415, or a-flat, or G#, depending 
on how you look at it. Enharmonics

Terry Peterson



----Original Message Follows----
From: "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net>
Reply-To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
Subject: Re: Help with "bad" tuning...need help
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:12:04 -0600

Hi Terry,
At A-4, 1 CPS = 3.8 cents

James Grebe
Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair
Creator of Handsome Hardwood Caster Cups
(314) 608-4137
WWW.JamesGrebe.com
1526 Raspberry Lane
Arnold, MO 63010
BECOME WHAT YOU BELIEVE!
pianoman@accessus.net
----- Original Message ----- From: "pianolover 88" 
<pianolover88@hotmail.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Help with "bad" tuning...need help


>another way to look at it is "cycles". Each cycle is comprised 
of 4
>cents. So, 100 cents flat, or 1/2 step flat is 25 cycles flat, or A
>415.
>
>Terry Peterson
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Robin Hufford <hufford1@airmail.net>
>Reply-To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
>To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
>Subject: Re: Help with "bad" tuning...need help
>Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:58:39 -0600
>
>List,
>    A half step is an adjacent key in the context of a piano
>keyboard.   It may be white to white as in the case of e-f, or b-c.
>It may be a white key to an adjacent black key, or a black key to a
>white one.  There are two adjacent pairs of white keys on the piano,
>those mentioned above. There are no black to black half steps as a
>white key will always be in between any two black keys chosen so as
>to be as close together as is possible.     Two half steps means an
>interval of a whole step, usually referred to as a whole tone.  This
>may be white to white, black to black, white to black or black to
>white.
>     The foregoing emanates from the layout of the keys on the
>keyboard itself without reference to notation.  A second
>consideration obtains when notation is taken into account.  Half
>steps must have adjacent letters names, that is they must be
>proximate to one another in the sequence of the musical alphabet
>which is (a, b , c, d, e, f, g, a, g, ......).   The same
>requirement occurs for whole tones, that is the interval must be
>named with proximate letters.  (A to b) is one such  proximate pair,
>as is ( b to c), along with the others.   Well, which is it?  Half
>or whole? This is determined by reference to the natural layout of
>the keyboard and the use or absence of a sharp or flat sign to
>indicate the half steps found on the keyboard referred to in the
>first paragraph above.
>      Intervals are named for the number of letter names they
>contain:  For example, counting upwards,  (a-a) is a unison, (a-b)
>is a second as it contains two letter names.  Similarly (a-c) is a
>third;(a-d), a fourth. etc. You can count up and name any interval
>you wish, although some are more standard than others.       The
>number of half steps contained in the interval determines, in the
>case of the second, whether it is a major or a minor second, that is
>a half tone or whole tone, or, alternatively, a half step or a whole
>step.  ALL WHOLE TONES MUST CONTAIN ONLY TWO HALF STEPS. B to c is
>intrinsincally a half step on the keyboard, as mentioned above. B-
>c(sharp) is now a hole tone as it contains two half steps.  So is
>b(flat) to c.  There are other somewhat arcane complexities, for
>example what is b(flat) to c(sharp)?  This is an augmented, major
>second.  For technicians who are not musicians, it is best to ignore
>such things.  This method of naming may be applied similarly to any
>note on the keyboard subject to certain limitations which are in the
>nature of definitions. The reference to whole tones contained above
>is just such one definition. There are others some of which are ALL
>MAJOR THIRDS MUST CONTAIN FOUR HALF STEPS, MINORS THIRDS MUST BE
>ONLY THREE HALF STEPS. etc.
>      There is no major third, as technicians are sometimes wont to
>do, which can correctly be referred to as a to D(flat).  This would,
>as it contains  four letter names, be a contracted, or diminished
>fourth, even though acoustically, it would be, in fact, the sound of
>the major third, which should correctly be referred to as a to
>c(sharp).  This seems paradoxical but there is an underlying logic
>and utility in these rules of naming as they correspond, in an
>amazingly logical way considering that they have developed from
>musicians, to the harmonic motion inherent in the actual music which
>the notation attempts to express.     In the cents notation, which
>expresses the logarithmic aspect of equal temperament, one octave
>itself comprises 1200 cents, which encompasses an actual doubling of
>frequency.  Obviously each half step contains 100 cents, which means
>  a whole tone or step comprises 200, a whole tone and a half step,
>300, etc. These are equal ratios and not counts of frequencies per
>second.  One can not impose upon the frequency difference of any two
>adjacent notes, by definition a half step or a hundred cents, an
>equal division of the frequency difference and arrive at a value for
>a cent,  as 100 cents are, in actuality, not an equal division by a
>hundred, but, rather, a hundred equal ratios, as Bob Scott pointed
>out only a few weeks ago.     This means, for example, if you could
>find a half step comprised of a hundred hertz, or arbitrarily
>defined it such,  that a cent does not equal one hertz.  Rather, a
>cent is the number, which, when multiplied by the frequency of the
>lower note and, done, 99 more times, will produce the frequency of
>the upper note. These are equal ratios, not equal divisions.
>Regards, Robin Hufford     in iannaman@aol.com wrote:
>
>>In a message dated 12/16/04 4:06:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>>pianoman@accessus.net writes:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I think part of the problem is that we are calling these
>half
>>>steps.  The
>>>distance between E and F is no larger than between F and 
F#.
>  It is
>>>still
>>>100 cents.  Why do we insist on calling those things 
whole
>steps
>>>anyway.?
>>
>>
>>
>>James,
>>
>>These are half-steps(not whole steps), aka half-tones,
>semi-tones or
>>minor seconds, and there are 100 equal divisions between them.
>Each
>>one of these miniscule portions is called a cent.
>>
>>Dave Stahl
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives


_______________________________________________
pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives