---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Bravo, Don. No matter what anyone else says!!!! ;-) Avery At 12:51 PM 2/14/04, you wrote: >Isaac, > >You are entitled to your opinions, but really, what you state is really a= =20 >lot of crazy talk. Perhaps this is partially caused by your having to=20 >post to this list in your second language - it is understandable that your= =20 >writing would not be as clear and carefully phrased as it should be. > >Those who have been to my seminars know that I do not hold back in=20 >criticizing Kawai pianos in those areas where I am aware of faults. If I= =20 >knew of the problems you have described, I would not bother to write and=20 >argue against them - that is not my way, and I value my personal integrity= =20 >too much to do so. > >That said, the problems you have described regarding bushings and ABS=20 >parts having sharp edges do not make sense, and in my 8 years as technical= =20 >support manager for Kawai in North America not once have I ever heard of=20 >or experienced myself any sharp edges or burrs on ABS repetition=20 >levers. These are the kinds of non-factually based criticisms that=20 >usually come from those who work with competing dealerships, or for one=20 >reason or another are predisposed to dislike this brand of pianos. > >I have observed that Isaac continually brings up ABS in discussions which= =20 >are not related to the topic. It would seem that this is an effort on his= =20 >part to: >a. Discredit Kawai in general >b. Draw me into an argument >c. Tout his technical superiority over the rest of the world's technicians > >The original topic of the thread was about Kawai's new adjustable touch=20 >action in upright pianos, and Isaac launches into an epistle of diatribes= =20 >against Kawai. He never gives indication with his signature stating why=20 >he might be biased against Kawai, but the content is very consistent. Why= =20 >is this? > >In reading many of Isaac's posts, letter C (above) seems to be the most=20 >common goal, and as such I usually don't feel the posts are worth=20 >responding to. In this case, letter A seems to be more the purpose, so I= =20 >felt I should respond. > >With this preamble completed, I would like to comment specifically on of=20 >Isaac's Kawai-bashing statements: > >"defects due to the molding process leaving sharp edges at the roller= window" > >Wood parts regularly have milling defects at the jack window. On brand=20 >new Renner and Steinway parts I have had to scrape this edge with a razor= =20 >knife (a much better solution than sanding, by the way) to eliminate=20 >artifacts of the milling process. I have never, in the literally tens of= =20 >thousands of ABS parts I have worked on, seen any burrs or sharp edges=20 >here. If Isaac really did find some kind of molding artifact in a=20 >repetition lever, this would be a very rare and surprising item - it=20 >should be treated as a fluke, repaired, and not turned into an argument=20 >against ABS parts. > >"I stand my point that Kawai never understood piano touch enough they have= =20 >always been a tad unresponsive that is frustrating for players and techs=20 >as the instruments could be more musical if so." > >For one who apparently has no knowledge of the Kawai R&D department, and=20 >seems to not be aware of the very common selection of Kawai pianos by=20 >competitors at piano competitions, this statement of Isaac's shows only=20 >ignorance. Isaac, have you ever met one of Kawai's concert technicians=20 >who supposedly (in your terms) do not understand piano touch? These are=20 >the people who finish off the EX concert grands and the Shigeru Kawai=20 >pianos. Every one of them spent 2 years in Europe during their training,= =20 >and I am very confident that their r=E9sum=E9s would embarrass most piano= =20 >tuners in the world. They work intimately with the highest caliber of=20 >pianists and with Kawai's rather extensive R&D department, and to say that= =20 >Kawai doesn't understand proper piano touch really is a personal insult to= =20 >these very fine technicians. > >As to the results of Kawai's labors, we regularly survey buyers and=20 >potential buyers of the Shigeru Kawai pianos, and the following are the=20 >most common types of comments about these pianos: >"Wonderful singing tone, very expressive" >"Incredibly sensitive action, it will do anything I ask of it." >Now I know that these kinds of solicited comments are not to be taken=20 >overly seriously, but my point is that we do not get complaints that the=20 >Shigeru Kawai actions are unresponsive. > >"as soon as you install better front punching" > >Here you are throwing another arcane and unclear criticism in without=20 >being concise. Kawai knows exactly what it is doing with the front=20 >punching firmness - as a classical pianist myself, I very strongly dislike= =20 >the feeling of overly hard front punchings. Here you are simply stating a= =20 >personal preference as a fact of inferiority. If you do not like Kawai's= =20 >punching hardness, can you conceive of the concept that others do like=20 >them? Even others of excellent ability, skill and knowledge? > >Here, I will restate this in your style of writing: Hard front rail=20 >punchings are a definite sign of inferiority in the piano and should be=20 >changed to a higher quality, more forgiving cloth. The thumpy,=20 >unforgiving end to the keystroke makes the piano tone percussive, weakens= =20 >projection, and damages the tendons of the pianist over time. Any=20 >technician who prefers hard punchings needs to change careers, as he or=20 >she is obviously not sensitive to musicality in the instrument. > >{To all other readers besides our Gallic fiend please note - the above=20 >paragraph was parody, not my actual opinion! ;-) } > >"It can be a psychological impression, but as yet those action with=20 >aluminum rails have something in the tone I don't like the most" > >I can unequivocally confirm to you, this is a psychological problem. The= =20 >Kawai rail has been extremely well researched and designed, with a=20 >combination of very strong vertical beams, serrated surface with rubber=20 >strip to assist with stable part spacing and alignment, and a wood letoff= =20 >button rail inserted underneath. > >I can tell you, though, there are some definite 'advantages' of a wood=20 >rail over Kawai's aluminum rail: >1. Much more energy is lost in fortissimo playing with wood rails due to=20 >flex and vibration, especially in the bass area. This has the benefit of= =20 >keeping the piano from being too loud, and keeps some of the pianist's=20 >energy from making loud noises and offending any nearby listeners. >2. When the wood vibrates in reaction to the hammer striking the string,=20 >there is a pleasing "knock" added to the tone of the piano. >3. Action parts to not stay screwed down tight nearly as long in wood=20 >rails. This provides the piano technicians with a stable source of = income. >4. Sandpaper on top of the wood rail enhances the quality of tone, giving= =20 >it that gritty, papery quality we all love. Any technician who cannot=20 >hear this is most assuredly in the wrong business - it is obvious! ;-) > >"I am unsure it is really the case, Kawai is not synonym of very good=20 >cloth and felts to >me, for some reason (see the Boston hammers)" > >And you should remain unsure, dear fiend, as this is another bunch of=20 >nonsense. > >Let me first say that Boston pianos are made to Steinway Specifications,=20 >and any criticisms of those instruments should be aimed at Steinway. If=20 >Steinway wanted the factory in Japan to change the hammer felts, then=20 >Kawai would do so. > >There is no company making pianos today who does not occasionally have a=20 >piano needing service to the action centers, Kawai included. Making=20 >reliable, firm action centers is one of the most difficult parts of piano= =20 >making. The parts must work in tropical climates as well as arctic ones,= =20 >and the manufacturer must try to fit the pins in the bushing for the=20 >widest level of reliability. This means that the tone under dry=20 >conditions will not be ideal, as the pins will be on the edge of being too= =20 >loose. This need to fit the action centers for reliable operation in all= =20 >climates is not a reflection of cloth quality or the surrounding material,= =20 >as the requirement holds just as true for Kawai grand hammer shanks (wood= =20 >material) as it does for our wippen flanges (ABS). In other words, the=20 >behavior of the different action centers within the exact same piano in=20 >the exact same conditions with the same cloth and different surrounding=20 >materials (wood vs ABS) is essentially the same. There is no better=20 >evidence than this of the fallacy of this old argument regarding wood=20 >parts giving a better fit with the bushing and pin. > >I would encourage everyone to take note of Yamaha's grand hammer flanges,= =20 >in which they apply a cross lamination to the wood were the bushings are=20 >glued in. Guess what? This stabilizes the wood, reducing the potential=20 >for the hole to change shape from humidity changes. Kind of like plastic,= hmm? > >I should say that I am also guilty of this same argument in the past. I=20 >once stated in my seminar on action centers that the wood parts must give= =20 >a more consistent fit, but after testing the idea carefully and actually=20 >working with direct comparisons of wood and ABS parts, I found that I was= =20 >wrong. Perhaps Isaac will someday learn his error as well. > >"(and I really hear the plastic "thump" of the damper levers as something= =20 >not in its place in a piano)." > >It is amazing to me how a lack of understanding makes people say such=20 >wrong things. If we made an ABS soundboard, everyone would rightly=20 >criticize it for being dead, not making any tone. ABS is a very inert,=20 >quiet material which dissipates vibrational energy. It cannot possibly=20 >add to the thump of the dampers! But inexperienced people hear a noise in= =20 >a piano, and instead of investigating the cause of the noise they see the= =20 >ABS and say - "Ah, that's it - cheap plastic" or something similar. > >I used to keep track of the number of 'tooners' who would call me at Kawai= =20 >and say something like "This action is clicking because of the plastic=20 >parts - you know, Steinway had this same problem with plastic (Teflon)=20 >bushings and they stopped making them!" When I heard this I would add=20 >another hatch mark to a certain notebook cover, and patiently explain yet= =20 >again that these actions have normal cloth bushings of a very high=20 >quality, and the technician might want to check again for the source of=20 >the noise. Usually we end up having to send another technician out, and=20 >it is never in the bushings or the ABS - the most common cause would be=20 >that the hammer heads had come loose on the shanks because of=20 >dryness. The original technician gets the piano owner upset over nothing,= =20 >and in the end looks like a jackass to all. > >"I also noticed it can be noisy , may be the rollers are artificial=20 >leather also (most probably) as for Yamaha, and that makes too much=20 >synthetic on synthetic contact paths ? Yamaha rollers and backchecks are=20 >very good for one - and they are not leather so not all synthetic parts=20 >are equal." > >Yamaha and Kawai (and some other piano makers) buy the artificial buckskin= =20 >from the same supplier in Japan. The advantages are that it has much=20 >better cushioning to reduce action noise, and it is very, very consistent= =20 >in thickness, firmness, and elasticity. Very fine buckskin is more=20 >resistant to squeaking noises, but otherwise has a lot of drawbacks. This= =20 >comment that it doesn't happen in Yamaha pianos may mean that some kind of= =20 >Yamaha angels have prevented Isaac from experiencing it, but I have=20 >personally had to apply Teflon powder to Yamaha knuckles (as well as Young= =20 >Chang and others) to stop the same noise. I recently serviced a very nice= =20 >Hamburg Steinway B which was squeaking and groaning very badly here. No= =20 >matter what the materials, knuckles (rollers) can squeak, and Teflon=20 >powder usually solves it. > >By the way, a very common source of squeaks in any knuckle material is=20 >human skin oil, from people rubbing them with their fingers. > >As to the allusion that ABS wippens are a little too heavy, this is a=20 >valid criticism - although one which produced complaints almost=20 >exclusively from dealers who sell competing products. Although the Kawai= =20 >action was engineered to perform well with this slight extra mass in the=20 >wippen, Kawai is just now introducing a new carbon strengthened ABS=20 >action, which allows us to bring the mass in the wippen assembly=20 >down. This new action is going to make a bit of a stir in the piano=20 >market, I think. > >There is nothing anyone can do to stop someone from posting all sorts of=20 >nonsensical opinions on this mail list. I generally don't respond - I=20 >have learned that it doesn't pay to roll in the mud with pigs, because=20 >they like it too much! In this case I have tried to at least slop out the= =20 >pig sty a little, but am now going to depart for a quick shower. > >Don Mannino RPT >Kawai America > > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/26/50/75/87/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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