Difficulty Hearing Beats While Setting Temperament

[Jason Kanter]

A beautiful post and an excellent thread. 

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
Of David Renaud
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 11:24 AM
To: pianotech@ptg.org
Subject: Re: Difficulty Hearing Beats While Setting Temperament

Hello
 
   Might I suggest you try ghosting as a focusing technique to hear the
beats. 

Examples. 

tuning a 4th:   Tune Bb3 to F3 slightly wide.
     Get it close by ear, when you are in range ghost the 4:3 partial at F4.
You can do this 2 ways.
a: audition the ghost solo by depressing F3 and Bb3 quietly without sounding
the notes, then strike F5 FF to excite the sympathetic 4:3 beating on F3 and
Bb3 respectively. b) play f3 and Bb3 quietly and strike F5 loudly to amplify
the 4:3 partial within the whole sound.

example 2: tuning a 3rd f3-a3

  Depress f3 and a3 without sounding the notes, just as to disengage the
dampers. Strike A5 loudly FF as a staccato note. The A5 tone will speak
sympathetically as the 5th partial on F3, and on the 4th partial of A3. 
This speaks only the beating portion of the 3rds tone.
When this beating sound is clear in your mind, sound the 3rd quietly
sustained and amplify the beating partial with loud staccato blows to A5.

example 3: tuning a 5th F3 to C4.

As above depress or sustain F3 and C4 while striking C5; the partials at the
3rd and 2cond level respectfully. By striking the C6 you may generate a
different faster beat rate at the 6:4 level. Both rates are there in the
sound together. Listen and tune to the 3:2

Example 4 : Octave tuning.

Enjoyed the samples of octaves recently posted.
Hope to post some similar stuff soon.(time!!)

Take A1 to A2, 

Ghost A3and make it pure
Ghost E4 & make it pure
Ghost A4 & make it pure
Ghost C#5 & make it pure

You will find that with each step higher in the series the sound requests a
progressively wider octave.

The 6:3 half way between the double octave from the lower note, and the
triple octave is a good compromise. It is said there is a sweet spot
somewhere between these reference points. I do not hold onto these points as
fixed tuning points, but only as known sign posts indicating where we are in
the spectrum. 

I think ghosting is best used as an amplifier of the desired reference
point. When ghosting is used  solo the whole string is not in normal motion
and I hypothesize the pitch is macroscopically different.(have not succeeded
in measuring this yet..must try)

Try this 

A) tune A1-A2 by sustaining A1-A2 quietly with the left hand and ghosting
A3-E4-A5(octave with a 5th in the middle) by a loud staccato blow with the
right hand. This generates 3 beat rates which you may hear in clear
conflict. Try to tune the best blend of the confusing rates to nullify there
collective effect insomuch as possible. 

B) Try ghosting the whole dominant 7th cord over A1-A2 in various inversions
E4-G4-A4-C#5...and even higher inversion for fun.(I know G4 is not in the A2
series, but it is in A1, and the first harmonic of the G4 you are striking
is in the A2 series) The point is we are experimenting by amplifying more
complex and more fully complete parts of the whole tone within the context
of sounding the whole tone.

I find experimenting with this stuff helps in the following ways as teaching
and focusing techniques.

1)the student learns the harmonic series under their fingers in a practical
way...not just in the head.

2)It helps the student hear beats more clearly sooner
  by helping them focus at specific levels.

3) It helps clarify the spead of harmonics from pure
  and clarify the need for choices, and the acceptable
  range choices.

4) It allows individual pianos to speak to the student about octave choices
early in the learning curve.

I likely could go on with benefits, but let my conclude with this thought. I
believe it is true what Virgil has been saying about the whole sound. 
With our machines, and advanced understanding of sound we have learned to
define fixed points of reference that sometime take away from the complex
nature and variety of tone and subtle difference that may dictate

in pitch. By ghosting over the quit sustained whole sound with multiple
ghosts that represent more of the whole sound I think we temper our 6:3s in
the bass accordingly to the individual strings that are there, and are led
to balance sometimes conflicting elements and quirks that appear throughout
and individual piano. 

  My hope is to find time to record demos of the results of prefect 4:2 6:3
8:4 octaves at various places in the bass, and also record the ghosting
sounds and results that gives seeing how that changes judgement to place a
pitch in the whole spectrum.

  As a footnote to this, I do not actually find time for much of this fun
and games during tuning.
Sometimes at a concert hall on a good 9 foot it is interesting to take the
time on an early morning session alone and quiet. Most small pianos on the
road are getting 6:3 bass imposed on them for no matter where I put it the
sound still bugs me, an I have concluded for now, that is the best
compromise. On good quality big pianos listening and pondering these things
is fascinating.

                                 Cheers
                                 David Renaud
























































































            
 


   
  



	

	
		
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