circle of sound

[gordon stelter]

Terry, 
     I think the difference is in what the
manufacturers are aiming for. The Boesendorfer rim, in
my opinion, adds an unpleasant amount of "echo" to
their pianos. A sort of resonance which, as a  player,
I find somewhat distracting. The opposite end of the
spectrum would be old Knabe grands, which have a
slightly too "hard" and immediate tone for my taste. (
But I still enjoy playing them ! ) 
     I like Masons and Conovers the most.
     I don't consider spruce truly "soft", as
chipboard is, for example. It may have a  low overall
density, but the fibrous portion of it is still pretty
rigid: almost "bamboo" like, hence a good transmitter,
and poor absorber, of vibrational energy.
     Thump
 
--- Terry <terry@farrellpiano.com> wrote:

> Boesendorfer makes their inner rims of spruce
> -right?
> 
> I have often wondered how they can make a decent
> piano with a soft,
> low-density wood like that. Do they use a vertically
> laminated rim like
> American pianos? Does Bechstein also use a spruce
> inner rim? I inspected an
> 1880s Weber recently (about 7-foot) and noted that
> it had a horizontally
> laminated softwood inner rim. Kinda neat looking
> actually (spruce, pine,
> don't know exactly what it was - didn't want to dig
> into it - but definitely
> softwood).
> 
> I'd sure like to hear any thoughts others might have
> about why a
> manufacturer would go for a low density wood when
> there is a fair bit of
> ?logic? well, so many successful builders use a
> heavy thick hardwood rim.
> 
> Terry Farrell
> 
> > Hi Terry, Ric, List,
> >
> > The radiation from speaker cabinet panels would
> not be
> > desirable even if the radiated spectrum were flat,
> > which it isn't.  So, MDF, being lossy
> (dissipative),
> > is in that application a good choice (as long as
> you
> > don't remind yourself that you paid all that money
> for
> > particle board). Sustain is definitely not what
> you
> > want in a loudspeaker box.  There is plenty of
> power
> > available from the amplifier to drive the speakers
> and
> > waste some energy in the fill material, the air
> > inside, and the MDF.
> >
> > In contrast, a piano designer probably strives to
> > direct as much of the energy into the soundboard
> and
> > get the least energy loss elsewhere so that the
> board
> > can keep vibrating as long and as vigorously as
> > possible.
> >
> > Now, my question is: why does Boesendorfer get
> decent
> > results with a soft rim.  Or, are the results that
> > great?
> >
> > Vladan
> >
> > =============================================
> >
> > I don't know Ric, I'm not sure exactly how
> applicable
> > it is, but the
> > preferred material for high-fidelity speaker box
> or
> > mounting platform is
> > MDF. Also, while it seems a good idea that every
> part
> > of the piano should
> > play its role, I'm not sure that all parts need to
> be
> > little soundboards.
> > MDF might not hold a screw well, might fall apart
> > rather quickly in the
> > water, but as far as just being an immobile hunk
> of
> > very dense stuff that
> > doesn't vibrate very well - which, I think, is the
> > basic function of an
> > inner rim - it think it fits that bill even better
> > than many hardwoods. It's
> > also dimensionally quite stable (I think).
> >
> > Hmmmmm, an MDF pre-formed inner rim?
> >
> > I'm really not suggesting that, but I find it
> > difficult to imagine how it
> > would be a detriment to the musical properties of
> a
> > piano when used as a
> > case material.
> >
> > Terry Farrell
> >
> > Richard wrote:
> >
> > > Grin.... true enough Terry.... but then that
> said.
> > Steinway does beleive
> > > in the idea that every part of the piano should
> in
> > someway or another
> > > contribute to the projection and quality of the
> > sound. Solid hardwoods
> > > cases/rims... vs papboard...?  hmmm
> >
> >
> >
> >
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