What's Fair? was RE: Lesson learned.....

[alan forsyth]

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To all mercenaries,

When it comes to pricing it is usually better to ask oneself; "would I =
pay that amount to have a job done?". In most cases the answer would be =
No!
I liaise with "businessmen" in the used piano market and am disgusted in =
the way they actually brag about their ripping off customers. One shop =
even had a sign outside with the name "Haddam and Howe". (Had them and =
how!)

AF
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Alan Barnard=20
  To: Pianotech=20
  Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 7:14 AM
  Subject: What's Fair? was RE: Lesson learned.....


  This is business, so I think it's on topic ...

  All this chatter about fairness, gouging, etc., strikes me as so much =
unnecessary angst.

  If the customer can afford it, is willing to pay it, and is happy with =
the results, then it doesn't matter WHAT you charge. You may price =
yourself out of business; and that's the ultimate punishment for =
greediness or stupidity in an open, competitive free market.=20

  Is a new Steinway M really WORTH $47,400? It absolutely doesn't =
matter: They have a market, the customer is delighted (okay, willing) to =
pay it and can afford it, and the rest of us buy used Wurlitzers. So =
what?=20

  I DO have an obligation to be fair with my customers by stating fees =
up front, getting agreement on the work and the fees, doing quality =
work, backing up my work, etc., but ...

  I have NO obligation, ever, whatsoever, to determine what is a "fair" =
amount to charge!

  I am NOT being unfair if I am the most expensive tech in the market, =
which I will ALWAYS be. I am not being unfair if I refuse to work cheap =
for people who are cheap (especially!) or even people who can only =
afford cheap. In the latter case, I can and DO, often, "fix up" a piano =
at substantially less than normal rates--if I think it will help =
somebody out, i.e., for charitable reasons (MY choice), and if I believe =
I will get a loyal, regular tuning customer out of the deal. I have done =
this often. But ...

  I am NOT being unfair if I charge someone else more! I don't have to =
decide what "fair" rates and prices are or agonize over the issue. The =
MARKET will take care of that, just fine.

  As long as you don't lie, cheat, steal, or otherwise break the =
commandments, it is PERFECTLY ethical, honest, Christian, =
whatevertermyouwant, to make a buck. And the more, the merrier.

  Keep the economy FREE. If prices rise, competition comes in and prices =
fall. If resources are scarce, the price goes up. If we get greedy, we =
lose customers to competitors and keyboards. So what?

  I understand how thinking can take another road ... my wife, for =
example, thinks it's outrageous that nice hotels charge twice as much, =
or more, for rooms on New Year's Eve. Supply and demand. There it is!

  I don't have or make a great deal. But happiness, it seems to me, is =
not found in holding myself back because I'm ahead of a few. Happiness =
comes in NOT envying those who have more while helping those who have =
less (NOT through any government)--and mostly by helping them do better, =
not stealing their dignity and hope by making them long term welfare =
cases.

  Here's a lot of wisdom in a simple formula:

  Income of $25,000 with Expenses & Debts of $24,000 =3D Happiness

  Income of $50,000 with Expenses & Debts of $51,000 =3D Misery

  I believe I might have climbed on a soapbox or pulpit there, sorry. =
G'night.

   Alan Barnard
  Salem, Missouri


    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: David Ilvedson=20
    To: deanmay@pianorebuilders.com;pianotech@ptg.org
    Sent: 09/24/2005 12:06:26 AM=20
    Subject: RE: Lesson learned.....


    List,

    First of all we have to disqualify Susan because she is tends to =
give away her work...(no smiley)...

    It sounds like Dean is selling an insurance policy for adequate =
tuning pin torque.   He has made the assumption that most of the time he =
will not have to come back do more CA application.   He made a high =
price to cover the occasional costs of coming back to do redo the =
work...

    (Dean says: Actually, I didn=12t say I could do it with no problem. =
I could do it but often it was a huge problem. CA helps to make it no =
problem. )

    If he never has to come back to redo the work, i.e "no problem", =
then we "MAY" have some qualms about the cost....

    So Dean, are you charging them $250 to do the CA work and then =
charging them for the tuning & whatever else is needed?   If you were =
doing the CA work and then tuning the piano...hey $250 is =
reasonable...especially witht the quarantee...$250 + the tuning charges =
seems a little extreme seeing as you don't have to come back.  Insurance =
companies DO have to put out money towards claims...

    my take...

    David Ilvedson










    =20

    =20


    >>Consider the cost to me that it took to develop the expertise to =
do this job.=20

    Okay, I will. What costs? Your computer time? I certainly paid =
nothing to=20
    learn this job, except some extra time for that first Zimmerman, to =
do=20
    the work more laboriously than necessary. Did you travel to a =
distant=20
    convention, or pay somebody a bundle to teach you to put CA glue on=20
    pinblocks? >>

    =20

    Let=12s see, I spent many hours learning the craft, many hours and =
dollars practicing and correcting mistakes. I spent many years using CA =
glue in other applications learning its idiosyncrasies particularly how =
wood responds to it. I spend an annual fee to the PTG. I took the time =
to attend meetings and network with other techs. I took the time to =
attend seminars. And yes, I take time here at the computer culling these =
posts for nuggets. Those are all real costs.=20



    =20

    =20


    >>Consider how much money I am saving the customer.=20

    I'm afraid I'm more likely to consider the money you are taking=20
    from your customer. If you can keep the piano playable and tunable=20
    for pennies and minutes per tuning, what are they paying the $250 =
for? >>

    =20

    I could get a job at Wal-Mart for $5 per hour as well. How can I =
sleep at night charging $85 for a tuning? How can David Love charge =
$150? (Sorry to bring you into this, David. I certainly in no way =
begrudge you your rates. You earn every penny) What do you charge for a =
tuning, Susan, and how can you justify that knowing that comparatively =
most of the world only makes pennies on the dollar on a per hour basis?=20




    =20

    =20

    >>Consider that everyone of these jobs that I've sold my customers =
have been very happy to pay such an amount for all of those benefits.=20

    Would they still be happy if they knew you how little it cost you to =
do it? Have you really thought through whether your fees should reflect =
whatever you can get, versus whether they should be based on how much =
effort and expense you have to shell out? If they spend money on their =
pianos which they didn't need to spend, they don't have it for =
everything else. >>

    =20

    Well, they watch real close. They see me tip the piano, they see my =
get out a little bottle of glue, they look at how it is applied and they =
watch the clock. I don=12t do any trickery, no incantations, nothing up =
the sleeve. If they can=12t figure out my actual costs in a ballpark =
range I should be charging them triple. They aren=12t paying for the =
actual costs and they know it. They are paying for my expertise and the =
peace of mind of an 8 year warranty. Less than $30 a year is making =
their piano usable where it previously wasn=12t. I am giving my =
customers a warranty. You aren=12t. Tell me who is giving their customer =
a better value?=20

    =20

    =20


    >>Just my take on it -- we all have to figure out business ethics =
for ourselves. <<

    =20

    I have no problem defending my charges. In fact I appreciate the =
challenge. But here is where it gets a little dicey. You have been =
pretty strongly implying that I am unethical in my charges.=20

    =20

    I consider myself a professional. I have 25 years experience and a =
degree in mechanical engineering. I have a strong base of satisfied =
customers who trust me with the care of their piano. I am not the =
cheapest tuner in the area and most of them know it. In fact, I always =
try to be the most expensive tuner in the area. If people don=12t want =
to pay my rates they are free to use someone else and I=12ve even given =
out the names and numbers of my competitors to such people.=20

    =20

    My newest car is 7 years old. I live in a 100 year old house. I am =
not materially rich- I have too many kids. ;-) But maybe someday I=12ll =
be able to get $300/minute like the proctologist. Better yet, I=12ll =
just be happy with the real wealth that I do have.=20

    =20

    Blessings,

    =20

    Dean

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