tuning

[pianotune05]

...and Dave, once money is better, I'm going to check into the ETDs that the 
sight impaired can read.  I'm really curious and interested in seeing these.
Marshall
ps. I find thae string problem situation in spinits.  I think if my wife 
decided to start nagging me for the first time after 17 years of marriage 
would be better than tuning some of the spinits I've encountered.  LOL :)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey at sbcglobal.net>
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:21 PM
Subject: RE: tuning


>I guess I do a type of whole tone tuning...you could call it whole tone 
>tuning by eye, ear & throat (I mutter a lot)..;-]  I use my SAT III and 
>tune unisons as I go...all my checks are done with tuned unisons...What 
>John mentions below about changes to your tuned notes if making a tension 
>change is so important to remember.
> When I'm bringing my three strings into tune I can instantly see if 
> something is drifting...I tune most unisons with my SAT and then check 
> aurally for movement...usually if I hear an aural problem, one string has 
> moved slightly...of course with the ETD I find unisons where I have to 
> flatten one string and sharpen the other to get a decent unison...inherent 
> string problems.
>
> I suggest strictly aural tuners at least consider working with a ETD 
> occasionally to "see" what they are missing...
>
> Because of the recent price increases, I am going to have to do with my 
> old flamesuit...so be nice
>
> David Ilvedson, RPT
> Pacifica, CA  94044
>
>
> ----- Original message ----------------------------------------
> From: "John M. Formsma" <john at formsmapiano.com>
> To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Received: 8/4/2006 2:30:07 PM
> Subject: RE: tuning
>
>
>>>Whole tone tuning, when practiced by a good tuner, is incredibly 
>>>accurate.
>>> Whoever made that statement to you is ignorant on the point,  with all
>>>due respect. PTG sells a little book by Virgil Smith about tuning that
>>>will set you straight, I believe.
>>>
>>>David Andersen
>
>>[John Formsma] I definitely agree with David here. There's something about
>>whole note tuning that actually makes it easier to hear when the note 
>>being
>>tuned gets in the right place. (It's probably the fact that you have more 
>>of
>>a solid "foundation" with all three strings sounding together then if only
>>the middle string is sounding.)
>
>>Now the caveat is that you have to get your unisons perfect as you go, or
>>your octave will be off.  The better the unison, the better the octave. 
>>For
>>me, tuning octaves is easier to hear this way than with a strip mute,
>>although it still takes me longer than with a strip mute.  I like tuning
>>with open unisons better because of the better sound it produces.  I think
>>it is also more stable.  However, I don't always tune with open unisons.
>>Usually just with better pianos that are close to pitch to start with.
>
>>Also, the piano should be fairly close to pitch before trying this.
>>Otherwise, there will be pitch drop that will cumulatively affect the rest
>>of the piano.  With experience, you can learn to expect pitch drop in
>>certain sections, and tune sharper to counteract this.  For instance, 
>>today
>>I was tuning a piano with the middle section just slightly sharp, and the
>>first section of treble was about 6-8 cents flat.  I only did one pass
>>through this section, but had to make adjustments to four unisons because
>>they had dropped a bit flat.  If you are careful to check your double
>>octaves and your octave-fifths, you will catch these before you make too
>>much cumulative error.
>
>>I have not read Virgil's book on tuning, but in his classes he teaches to
>>get the upper note of the octave just a tad sharp, so there is just a tiny
>>beat.  This beat will go away once the unison of the upper note is tuned.
>
>>JF