* Re: preparations

[Stéphane Collin]

Hi Geoff.

Comments interspersed.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Geoff Sykes" <thetuner at ivories52.com>
To: "'Pianotech List'" <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:33 PM
Subject: RE: * Re: preparations


Name calling is not necessary, nor appreciated, on this list in order to
make a point.

- Whose name did I call ?  Rereading my post, I find only Mozart, Stravinsky 
and the average Joes, and certainly not in a way to get angry about.

And just because your taste in music is narrow minded

- now THIS is objectable !

does not mean that the music you are unable to appreciate should not be 
considered
music(al).

- with this I agree.

There is a lot more out there than just 12 tone western.

- sure, I'm aware of this.

And just because an instrument is "designed" to function one way should not 
limit the
player in his/her quest to make it produce non-traditional sounds.

- about sounds produced by instruments outside their usual use, I believe 
this : when it works, it works.  When it doesn't, no side effect will make 
me believe it is fantastic.  A soprano screaming like a murdered cat, well, 
I myself do not find that interesting (of course, if you do, good for you). 
But I think (and don't forget to tell me what you think, in a polite way if 
possible) that she is doing that for a reason that is not essencially 
musical, but kind of social instead.  You wouldn't believe what a difference 
it makes for a soprano to be "considered" or not.  And you wouldn't believe 
on what basis they are actually considered.  Same for other instruments.

Are you against guitar players that also thump their guitar for percussion 
sounds?

- well, depending on the context, my opinion would vary from yes for sure to 
no not at all.  By the way, this is a traditional way of approaching the 
guitar strings in flamenco music.  Again, if it works, it works.

Why should a piano player limit themselves to what 200 years of tradition
and culture have to offer?

- Maybe not limit, ok, but at least get to know that tradition before 
burying it (in case there is some useful meaning underlying).

There is a place for John Cage whether or not you
can appreciate his music.

- I agree once again.  Indeed I don't like Cage's very much.  But if you 
know the person and his work, you will agree that his pertinence is more at 
the level of the idea than that of the music.  Did you know for example that 
he wrote a piece where nothing happens but the audience making the usual 
background noise while waiting, then exasperating (nothing else happens) and 
going away ? This is an attitude, whose only merit is to be new (and 
provocative).  But this kind of "musical" idea will not make a tradition in 
the future, believe me.  Same for his piece where some dude throws a box 
full of teaspoons on the ground and that's it (does anybody know howmuch 
copyright he got for this ? (if any.))

Don't dis Stephen Scott's bowed piano compositions
just because the piano is being played non-traditionally.

- This composer I don'tknow.  But I will try and hear some from him (I am 
curious).

There is such a large audience for microtonal music that Sauter even 
manufactures a 1/16
tone microtonal piano. (see link below)

- Now this is something else.  Unlike atonal music (whic was an intellectual 
system, after all very simple, maybe poor), microtonal music is the natural 
evolution of tonal music.  It relies on the lessons of the tradition.  It is 
completely different to master the tradition and then try a step further, 
than to invent something completely new from scratch.  Think of a new 
language that you create : after 3 years practicing it, you reach with that 
new language the pertinence of a 3 years old child learning his mother 
language (maybe not even, if you are older, one learns not so fast anymore). 
Now go on, and write us a nice poem in that language.
But about gongs, I prefer the 2000 years Tibetan tradition to the piano prep 
approach, sorry.
Thanks for the interesting link.

In other words, you get to not like
whatever you want. And you are entitled to your opinions. I would like to
suggest, however, that the pianoTech forum is not a place where you get to
throw epithets at that those of us that DO appreciate, or perform, these
alternative definitions of music.

- I'm not conscious that I trew ugly epithets at anybody's head.  I just 
mentionned that the behaviour of trying (in this case by musical means) to 
show that you are mightier than your neighbour, is a primitive one, which 
doesn't mean pejorative.
I will again say that I think that the one who does appreciate something 
(anything) is, in my eyes, happier than the one who doesn't.  Very good for 
him, and for me (I like to see people happy).  I myself and for my own sake 
am just hunting the fakes.

Best regards.

Stéphane Collin.

http://www.sauter-pianos.de/english/pianos/microtone.html


-- Geoff Sykes
-- Assoc. Los Angeles





-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Stéphane Collin
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 11:19 AM
To: Pianotech List
Subject: * Re: preparations


Hi Tish.

I do like (some) contemporary music.  But I must confess that I always have
the same reaction in this kind of situation, that is, when a composer or a
performer decides to go beyond the limits of an instrument.  Those soprano
singers who try their guts to get above that contra ut in Mozart's "Reine de

la Nuit", those fagott players who want to reach a note a semi tone above
the highest of Stravinsky's "Sacre du Printemps", those trumpet players who
develop insane self contentment when they pouèèèt higher than their
neigbourgh, those violin players who wouldn't come on a podium unless they
have a brand new way to make a brand new sound out of their instrument
(harmonics, flautando, armonicando, triturando, catastrophicando, etc.) and
yes, pianists who come with prepared pianos, they all make me think the same

thing : what is the very reason for doing so ?
The only reason I see (sorry if I'm myop) is that it makes a clear
separation between those who can do it (the true heroes), and those who
can't (the average Joes, and yes, walk in the shadow).  Very basic and
primitive behaviour, methink.
Yes, it is possible to get a bass note on a piano that lasts for 5 minutes,
attaching a nylon string to the bass string, and rubbing this nylon string
with fingers full of colophane.  You know how it sounds ? Like a cheap
synthesizer poorly programmed.
If you want (need) other sounds, why not use the instruments dedicated to
those ?  And if you use a piano, why not explore the best that 200 years
tradition of technicians fully dedicated to piano culture have to offer ?
First, think of it, then, answer.

Best regards.

Stéphane Collin.




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tish mukarji" <tishamukarji at yahoo.com>
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 3:42 PM
Subject: preparations


> Hello list,
>
> I'm a pianist who does mostly contemporary music, and
> I use a lot of preparations, I was wondering what your thoughts on
> this use does to the strings. If I play a set of one hour with screws
> lodged inbetween a few strings what type of technical effect will it
> have. Granted that you can badly prepare a piano, but say I
> don't hit the keys with preparations to hard.
> Basically at times I get a lot of hassle from
> organisers who don't know anything. I met a very nice
> technician in Scotland who was very open. So I would
> like to know your views on the subject.
> Thanks in advance,
> T
>
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