German Loop / French Loop / English Loop ?

[Ron Overs]

JD wrote:

>. . . All German eyes, whether double or single will tighten round 
>the pin and they are often a hell of a job to get off.

Not so for all. Read my post.

>   When I make bass strings with German eyes I also allow for this 
>closing up of the eye, about 5mm for the single and 10 for the 
>double.

Yes you will if you make the eyes without first bending the wire 
before winding the coil. I know what you're saying because I have 
done the experiments at the bench. But you don't seem to be taking in 
what I'm writing. I conducted eye-experiments back in 2002-3 prior to 
building our piano no. 5 for the Sydney Conservatorium. This was the 
first piano in which we used the double-looped eye instead of the 
twisted eye for the bass strings. I wasn't prepared to use the looped 
eye unless I could solve the problem of not being able to easily 
remove the bass strings from their hitch, should they need to be 
twisted. I worked as a tuner-technician for twenty five years before 
I started building pianos, and I've done my share of cursing when 
trying to remove tightened-on-the-hitch-pin looped-eye bass strings, 
to twist them.

>>As you can see this loop [pictured] is centered on the axis of the 
>>back length wire. This is achieved by first bending the wire with a 
>>very tight bend (to the right, as you look at the image below), 
>>before forming the loop/s. In addition to centering the coil, eyes 
>>formed in this way will not tighten down onto the hitch pin 
>>(provided that the loop is a relatively close fit to the diameter 
>>of the hitch pin).
>
>Well, if it works and serves the intended purpose, well and good.

Why do you think I've written these posts to the Pianotech list, just 
to lead everyone 'up the garden path'?

>I have never seen the point of the double turn round the pin

Neither did I until I performed a series of experiments at the bench, 
after all they are more trouble to make. I found that a single looped 
eye will tighten on the hitch even if the wire is bent before making 
the coil, while the double looped eye will resist tightening on the 
hitch. The extra friction of the extra loop seems to reduce the 
tension on the three coil tie-off and tail (tag), reducing the 
tendency of the eye to tighten on the hitch.

>  and if, as you say there is no slip with your eye, then what is the 
>point of leaving the tag on?

It is necessary for the way I build eyes. But I do not wish to argue 
this topic any further. If you would like to leave the tails off, 
please do!!!!!!

>  A single German eye with a single whole coil to finish and with a 
>tag will no slip.  I think it was Irmler who used such an eye.

I am not commenting on what Irmler or anyone else has or hasn't done 
with respect to  eye terminations. I'm merely reporting the way we 
make our eyes, why we do it, and what we perceive to be the benefits 
of doing it the way we do. I know that what we do works, because I've 
actually built pianos using eyes made the way I've described, and 
I've released the tension and removed the strings from the hitch 
easily by hand. What more can I say?

You just don't seem to get the thrust of my posts on this topic. You 
don't seem to believe that the double looped eyes we make don't 
tighten down on the hitch pin. Then you go on to write that you've 
never seen the point of the "double turn round the pin". What is it 
JD? Do you think folks write to this list in order to spread 
misinformation?

Instead of immediately jumping on the keyboard again, why don't you 
get out some wire and some pliers and do some experiments to find out 
for yourself, just what it is I've been writing about?

Back when I did the experiments to prove to my satisfaction that this 
is possible, I actually did do the experiments, and I actually did 
find that if I made the double looped eye by first bending the wire 
as I described before forming the loop, that I actually could make an 
eye which did not tighten on the hitch pin.

There will still be a small amount of pull elongation in the eye as 
the string comes to tension, but I have found that provide the 
reverse bend is used, the movement will  be very small.

Ron O.
-- 
OVERS PIANOS - SYDNEY
    Grand Piano Manufacturers
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Web http://overspianos.com.au
mailto:ron at overspianos.com.au
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