It's unfortunate that this conversation often turns into an us against them discussion. I think it's important to understand how this all came about and why. Everyone wants to build a soundboard that produces good, reliable tone and in a predictable way. If you are a large company that builds, say, 3000 pianos a year, don't want to change the way you've done things for 150 years, and can afford to have so many less than stellar outcomes because of clever "personality" marketing, or an otherwise solid reputation, you may not have to worry about it. But if you are a small rebuilder doing 10 - 20 pianos a year, you don't have that luxury. Each piano means a lot more and less than stellar outcomes or even unpredictable results don't help your cause. I don't guess that for these smaller rebuilders originally doing CC boards that all of them came out poorly, I know that some of them did come out well, and some not so well. I gather, from my discussions, that it was the high percentage of poor outcomes that drove them to look for a more reliable method. They are sharing what they've found and the research is ongoing. Everyone has the choice of building a board however they like. Rather than speculate about this or that, the best thing to do is either build one, or have someone build one or several for you and then decide. Most of the discussion back and forth comes from people who haven't heard an RC&S board. It makes the speculations about what works and what doesn't fairly meaningless. David Love davidlovepianos@comcast.net -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ric Brekne Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 2:12 AM To: pianotech Subject: Dear Mr. Nossaman.....( Was, "Why wide, flat ribs.....? ) Again David makes some very fine points. I would like to add a couple comments if I may. One of the problems with the disscussion surrounding CC boards is that on the one hand they are defined as being self destruct mechanisms, while on the other hand there is acknowledgement that somehow some of these doomsday assemblies manage miraculously to survive many years and perform wonderfully.... something that per the definition first given simply cant happen... especially in any real significant numbers. Another problem is the apparent refusal on the part of some to acknowledge that there are differences in the resulting sound pictures that the different boards make. I've seen that discussion go round and around several times with RC&S enthusiasts shooting themselves in the foot time and time again with mutually exclusive self contradictory argumentation in comparing the two approaches. Thirdly... none of the CC supporters I know of question the advantages of the RC&S approach to begin with. We (I certainly) am not down on the RC&S idea... sounds actually great to me... predictability, comparitive ease of manufacture, durability... etc etc etc. Acknowledgement of the apparent successes CC boards have had through the years is not tantamount to a rejection of RC&S boards. The personal commentary that sometimes gets mixed in doesnt do the discussion any good either. I see no point whatsoever in throwing in comments that essentially define a discussion partner as insincere or whathave you. Seems clearly non conducive to any meaningfull discussion IMHO. Being a learner here is far from always easy. Cheers RicB David Love writes: I won't speak for Ron but just want to comment that the notion that CC boards never last or produce a good tone has been covered a lot. From what I've read and from endless discussions I've had, none of the advocates of RC&S boards have made that claim. There are many examples of fine sounding CC boards out there. There are also many examples of failed ones. If I understand it correctly, whether a wide, shallow rib has some rib crowning doesn't really matter. In that system, the panel must still bear a lot of stress of compression. There are many examples of rib crowning in compression systems where the assembly didn't hold up or perhaps never got there to begin with. The goal, as I see it, is to create a more reliable and controllable system. The devil is still in the details. Just because you make an RC&S assembly doesn't mean it automatically sounds like you want it too. There are still several decision to be made that effect the tone including: materials, grain angle, thickness, rib radii and dimensions, number of ribs, configuration, scale, bridge height and probably a bunch of other stuff I will forget to mention. Remember, nearly all people who get into car accidents eat French fries. David Love davidlovepianos@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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