Pin flexing/bending/twisting

[RicB]

Dave.

With respect... and lots of it... I have to just respond to the part of 
your post directed clearly at me.  The Mic Ric bit is accepted in the 
jovial spirit I am sure you meant it, just to get this reply off on a 
nice note as it were.  

You do make a charge... point shall we say about dallying close to a 
danger zone followed up by underlining the false beat example I give has 
nothing to do with tuning pins per se. I have to take issue this on at 
least a couple counts.

#1.  The neccessity or not of bringing in any particular example for the 
sake of illustrating a point is a matter for the individual writing a 
post to decide.  IMHO readers should simply accept that a post is trying 
to convey something meaningful and leave it at that.
#2  Failure to simple accept contributions on face value and start 
reading into them side issues that may even perhaps be their is the real 
danger zone.  Why allow oneself to be provoked in the first place... 
even if that was what a poster was trying to do ... which you dont 
really know...
#3 I dont believe I ever tried to convey that the cause of false beats 
had anything in practice to do with the whether tuning pins can 
damage/be damaged in the course of years of use.  Rather, and I think I 
pretty clearly stated this... I drew an example of how opinions on a 
matter based on what can be only seen as casual observance get presented 
as fact... and indeed take root and in the end become myths accepted as 
fact. 

We scorn regularly at this kind of thing as it has happened in the 
distant /not to distant past... but we just as regularly look past our 
own eagerness to sew and give nourishment to new myths.

Not meaning any disrespect to Ed Foote... but (and by way of another 
example)  Just how does one ascertain the factual nature of the two main 
claims he made in his post ?  I have myself turned out pins 3 1/2 turns 
for replacing strings for nigh on 35 years now.  And my experience does 
not, I say again does NOT, support the claim that this in anyway 
whatsoever causes damage to the pin block or causes tuning pins to loose 
so much torque that they are anywhere near untunable.  In fact... I find 
on older pianos the occurance of very low torque levels has no 
correlation to which notes have had strings replaced at all. But... the 
fact is.. that neither Ed or I have any kind of real data to begin with 
to support a claim of fact.... let alone putting that data into the 
perspective of an organized study.

My point is... we can share thoughts all day long... and thats fine.  
But things here get presented as fact that clearly are not 
substantiated.  I am aware that some seem to find it annoying that I 
keep raising this point... but for my part I consider it an important 
one. Especially when apparently so many here are honestly and genuinely 
concerned with ascertaining more piano-fakta and sifting away myth and 
supposition (for not to say superstition).

Lastly... why really should any of this give cause or rise to 
"combat"... as you put it ?  Whats wrong with just expressing one views  
in the spirit of polite discussion ?  Why the need to beat (as in 
combat) the other guy/gal up ?  Sorry if my allusion to the False Beats 
discussion took you off into some danger zone.  It was just the best 
example of the point I was trying to make at hand at the time.

Cheers
RicB
 


    Dave  Skolnik writes:
    The most difficult aspect of responding to your question(s) is to
    navigate through the "triggers" that would ultimately derail an
    otherwise intelligent discussion of a reasonable question(s). Not
    wanting to point any fingers, I'll just sort of lean in Mic Sprekne's
    (name misspelled to protect identity) direction.  I thoroughly
    respect Ric Mic's formidable body of contributions, but, to prove to
    myself that he's human, I'll occasionally look for something to
    criticize.  I think the last post in this thread dallied
    unnecessarily in the danger zone...false beats and round or flat
    earth controversy!  While it may ultimately be related, there could
    be so much to talk about before succumbing to the urge for
    combat.  DOWN!  (there's always the midterm elections tomorrow ta
    quench yr thirst fr blood, matey!)

    I write "question(s)" because it IS two questions... tuning pin and
    pinblock.  This has nothing to do with bridge, bridge pins or false
    beats, but you would want to be able to distinguish the behavior of
    the tuning pin, as distinct from the block, in the almost infinite
    permutations.  I said almost.  For the pins, consider the size,
    composition, finish, consistency, method of fabrication, more.  The
    block...material selection, style (glue to wood ratio), drilling
    techniques, more.  Not to mention tuning pin bushings.