Ronsen Bacon felt

[RicB]

Hi all

I've been reading this thread with interest not the least because of the 
dispassionate way the participants have discussed the issues involved so 
far. Voicing / hammer felt discussions have a want of getting very eager 
from time to time, and this one is a wonderful exception.

Bruce hits one of the problem areas on the nose when he mentions the 
<<beautiful tone>> that softer hammers allow that despite that beauty 
leaves one falling short on power and brilliance. Its one of the first 
big stumps you run into on ones journey towards becoming a competent 
voicer.... where the balance between just how warm and beautiful a sound 
you want and how much brilliance you want.  Most of us really want more 
of each then is possible regardless of hammer, regardless of match to 
string and panel planes.

A classic example was Nossamans beautiful rebuilt Steinway in 
Rochester.  There was little or nothing left of the Steinway in this 
instrument... and very very much of Nossaman.  And beautiful it indeed 
was... but it did not bite with what brilliance it had.  For those who 
want that kind of bite... what I associate with when the terms like <<a 
certain kinesthetic pop>> are thrown on the table,  this kind of 
configuration is just not going to do.  It would have been interesting 
to see how far one could have pushed Nossamans instrument in this 
direction before things started getting ugly.  It had all kinds of 
<<fat>>, almost too much to my ear. But thats just me.  The treble was 
to melt for.... but again... if I wanted a <<Kling>> to the klang...  I 
dont think that was the piano to fit the bill.

Another classic example of a related kind of voicing problem is seen 
(IMHO) when comparing Bostons with Yamahas. Set aside hammer selections 
for the moment. The Boston instrument has a very different sound palette 
then the Yamaha does.  The Yamaha is bright, light, brashy.. brassy.. to 
the point of getting metalic and crashy if you dont keep the hammers 
tamed enough.  The Boston is has much more of a boomy bass with little 
or no brashyness to it. The treble much more clear and bell like.  In 
both cases if you push them too hard they get ugly fast... but in 
entirely different ways.  One can almost deal with a Yamaha thats just 
over the border.  But a Boston with hammers too hard just plain isnt 
liveable.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the tendancy for many to 
opt for the beautiful at the expense of power and brightness can cost 
you big time.  I remember a story David A wrote a couple years back 
about a piano he'd just voiced and a pianist coming in accusing him of 
<<killing the piano>>.

Its a hard call to be sure.  The three voicing teachers I've had the 
fortune to spend time with have all drilled in the same lesson.  Make it 
beautiful... but make it powerful as well.  Clear as day, I know... 
:).... But the discussion about hammer felts and voicing preferences 
does, clear as day, illustrate the bredth of the problem in front of the 
voicer.

Cheers
RicB

    Hi  David (A),  


    What you said about "a certain kinesthetic pop" does make sense.  
    When it
    comes to selecting hammers that produce a certain tone for a 
    particular
    customer, we come up against some challenges.  This set of  hammers
    I used on the
    Yamaha were from a recent order from Ronsen....I think  it was
    better than in the
    past.  In the past, I have found the some of  the sets with Bacon
    felt were a
    bit soft and did in fact require some juice  (even though I gave the
    hammers
    a hard shaping to remove some of the soft,  squishy felt and to
    establish the
    "Steinway" shape.... I actually think there  is something to this
    Steinway
    shape).  
    In my working with Ray, I have asked him to prepare my hammers with a  
    Steinway style look in the raw.  
    Dale pointed me to the Wurtzen felt that Ray was using a couple of
    years  ago
    and I have a number of sets on the shelf.  I think they are a bit
    too  hard
    for certain situations and asked Ray in Rochester is he had anything
    with  a
    density between the Bacon felt and the Wurtzen felt.  2 months ago,
    he  emailed
    me and said he found some.  I placed an order for 4 sets and  found
    that they
    were in fact a bit less dense.  I like what I see and  hear.
    Now I feel that I have some options when it comes to changing 
    hammers.  
    I have a Hamburg B that I did a quick hammer change and installed a
    set  of
    Bacon felt hammers so that Chris Robinson could use the piano his
    voicing  
    class last year in Burbank.  These hammers were soft... Beautiful
    tone...  But,
    too soft.  I didn't get that "certain kinesthetic pop".  I let  my
    children
    practice on the piano and I would occasionally play it as  well.  I
    think we
    enjoyed the tone but we all felt it lacked something  (the pop).  I
    could have
    juiced the felt and improved the situation but I  discovered that
    the piano had a
    radical and varying string height and I  had bored the hammers
    incorrectly.  I
    had no choice but to change them  again.
    Before my wife Rachel and I hosted the South Bay Chapter December 
    meeting, I
    felt I needed to make a change in the tone of the piano and I 
    installed the
    newer Wurtzen hammers from Ray.  The transformation was 
    spectacular.  The
    "pop" returned but it was not too  bright.  
    In another situation where I was going to restore a Steinway M for a  
    customer, I had this individual play the Hamburg B with the Wurtzen
    felt and a  
    Steinway M I had just finished on which I installed the Bacon felt. 
    This  customer
    choose the Bacon.  I completed this piano 6 weeks ago and he is 
    thrilled
    with the result.
    In another situation, I have a customer who preparing to have his 
    Steinway B
    restored and he has asked to see various pianos that I have 
    restored.  He
    has played my Hamburg B as well as the recent M that I  finished....
    He liked
    the B vs. the M.
    I don't mean to drone on and on but you made such a great point
    about the  
    "certain kinesthetic pop" and I wanted to share some of my experiences.
    I found Mark Potters post very interesting.  Steve Schell has had a 
    similar
    experience with the Steinway D of the Long Beach Symphony.  He  felt it
    projected into the hall and the recording engineer loved it.  The 
    problem was that
    the artists didn't get the "pop" and eventually, he had to  harden the
    hammers.  He should detail his experience some time to those  that
    are interested.


    I look forward to seeing you and the gang in San Francisco.


    Sincerely,


    Bruce Stevens