etds and ears

[David Andersen]

Hey, kids---I do a pitch raise aurally, exactly like I do a tuning,  
but quicker, with about a 1/3 overpull, less or more depending on the  
piano and the situation; I, like Fenton, spend a little more time on  
the temperament (my order is temperament, then down to the bottom,  
then up to the top from F#4;) it just makes it more bearable and  
pleasant as I speed through. I like a pitch raise; it's more money,  
and I like to challenge myself to leave the piano ready for fine  
tuning at .5-1.5 cents low: my favorite tuning platform. Takes me 25  
or 30 minutes. I usually charge $75.00.....

David Andersen



On Feb 18, 2007, at 4:33 PM, Fenton Murray wrote:

> No challenge felt here, I'm honored to be asked.
> I'd probably agree with most of what JF has said below. It is a  
> feel thing based on roughly a 1/3 over pull on my first note A440.  
> >From there I usually tune single strings everywhere but the bass.  
> A couple extra beats going into the tenor break, then backing off  
> into the treble. I save the bass for last, after pulling up the  
> unison elsewhere, I simply don't want to break bass strings. Every  
> piano is different and you get to know how they will behave. Old  
> rusty Chickerings are not going to be yanked up 1/3 over when they  
> are 100 c flat. Common sense there. Suesan Graham wrote 15 or 20  
> years ago that the further flat the piano is the faster she tunes,  
> as things get closer, slow down and be more careful. Sometimes I am  
> absolutely right on after a 20 minute pass from 100 cents flat,  
> other times the treble is still down. If things aren't behaving  
> properly one should be looking at things like pin block fit or  
> bridge problems. I like to spend a bit of time on the temperment  
> even on pitch raises because I want to start creating that  
> foundation right away. I enjoy the challenge of pitch raises. It's  
> kind of like archery.
> Fenton
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Formsma
> To: Pianotech List
> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: etds and ears
>
> John,
>
> I'm assuming you mean a pitch "raise."
>
> I haven't done any personal studies on it, but I accept the fact  
> that one will get a more accurate and stable pitch raise by tuning  
> unisons as he goes, from the bottom up.  I think Dr. Sanderson  
> proved this many years ago, and my time with the Verituner  
> confirmed this to me.
>
> As a strictly aural tuner now, though, I don't have a choice except  
> to tune from the middle outward, unless it's a "blind" pitch raise,  
> which I personally never got the hang of. The way you get the right  
> overpull is to do pitch raises enough that you know sort of what to  
> expect. It becomes less of a guessing game and more of a "feel"  
> thing. You could think of it as knowing how many beats sharp to  
> tune it. As you learn through experience, you will find certain  
> types of pianos behaving more predictably. I generally set A4 1/3  
> more than it is flat; e.g., if it's -10¢, I'll set it to +3¢.
>
> I use strip mutes in the whole piano, "Dan Levitan style." It takes  
> about 15 minutes for a pitch raise. It is generally not as accurate  
> as an ETD, but I have had occasions that many strings were as close  
> as an ETD could get in a first-pass pitch raise.
>
> There is probably lots of stuff in the archives. Good luck  
> searching for it!
>
> JF
>
> I would like to know from Fenton and from others how
> they manage a pitch range aurally.  I've often thought of going  
> completely to
> aural tuning but am worried about how exactly to estimate overpull,  
> and make
> it as efficient and close as my SAT does in one pass when in pitch  
> range mode.
> I've also heard that it's a preferred method to go from bottom to top,
> unisons as you go, when raising/correcting pitch.  I'd love to hear  
> aural
> tuners' takes on this.  (Understand I'm sincerely curious and NOT  
> challenging
> anybody)
>
>

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