tuning two pianos together

[John Formsma]

Thanks Phil. I now realize that I made a misleading statement in my
original post. Oops!

> John, this is an example of how a machine can do a great
> job for you.

I'm not a machine tuner anymore, and was tuning these pianos aurally.
I was wondering how machine tuners would have handled this kind of
situation. It seemed a situation in which a machine (perhaps) would
have been liability rather than an asset...since the machine measures
absolute pitch as opposed to an aural tuner who might automatically
(unknowingly) be compensating for slight changes due to temp
flucuations.

> -double-check all unisons. There's 2 places where you need
> to be extremely fussy. This is one of them. The other is:

I'm always extremely fussy with unisons.  :)

> -The Bass/Tenor Break area of the 'lesser' piano'..in your
> case, the Weber(?!!?!).

The only note that was noticeably out of tune with the D was the first
one of the tenor...a plain-wire B2. But I had already turned my
"super-critical" ear off and was listening with my "realistic" ear.
<g>

> There will be a little funkiness..don't worry too
> much about it not being in tune with itself here, or
> slightly out of tune..there's enough funk on that Weber,
> I'm sure, to compromise with its greater brethren for this
> application.

Lots of funkiness. <g>  Even this: there were signs of multiple string
replacements in the killer octave section. Like the end of the string
sticking out of the tuning pin hole, and poor coils. Soooo...who knows
if the person who did that even bothered to accurately measure what he
replaced. This piano obviously needs a good bit of attention and could
be made so much better. But that's not in the budget, and it was only
brought in for this event.

> There's not going to be a huge difference
> between the Weber being 'in tune' and the Weber 'in tune
> with the Steinway'.

I noticed this was the case except in the tenor/bass section breaks.
(And that will help me tune it again when I return tonight.)

> John, you said:
>
> > then tune with open unisons to get the most
> > expanded tuning as will fit the piano.
>
> I disagree because you're dealing with apples and
> oranges..not so much with the size difference, but with the
> scale/tension difference between the 2. I realize that
> you're trying to compromise for this difference with the
> style you're choosing. I have had bad luck trying to figure
> out "which way to go" when dealing with 2 very different
> pianos. It's been my experience to get each piano in tune
> with itself, and then deal with the differences from
> there..which, in most cases, is the Bass/Tenor Break area
> of the lesser piano.

I understand what you're saying here. What I was thinking is that
compromises would be less noticeable in the D since it is better
scaled/voiced than the Weber. For instance, I tuned the Weber with
fifths that were much closer to pure than the D's.

I've found that tuning with open unisons gives the purest, most
"in-tune" sound, which is why I went with that on the Weber. But from
my experience with that on this D, I think it would make the D seem
sharp to the Weber. At least the upper treble would "sing" much more
clearly in stark contrast to the Weber. (Sorry to use subjective
language. I don't have anything to measure cents, or I could perhaps
be more scientific.)

This is one case where I wish I had a machine. Even if I were tuning
aurally, it still would be great to be able to look at some spinning
lights to make sure. It would be much faster since you wouldn't have
to check with interval tests to see where the other piano was.

One other thing comes to mind. This is wild brainstorming, but I
thought I'd ask anyway....  Would you completely tune one piano before
beginning on the other, or would you tune the middle section of each
piano, trying to blend things together as best as possible before you
move to the respective bass and treble?

Thanks again,

JF