Steinway action noise

[Greg Newell]

Mike,
	Thanks for the reply! Comments below.

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Mike Spalding
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 2:47 PM
To: Pianotech List
Subject: Re: Steinway action noise

Greg,

That's hard to imaging happening (jack hitting hammer flange).  I just 
tried to duplicate it on an action model, and with new Renner parts on a 
1928 "L" stack, and can't come close.  Can you manipulate the parts by 
hand to make them touch, or do you have to play a forte blow?

I can reproduce the click by hand without the use of the key.

  Could you 
post a photo/sketch of where the parts are when they contact?

I'll try for photos in the morning. Too bleary eyed tonight.

  Does the 
note play normally when it clicks, or does the jack "cheat" out from 
under the knuckle prematurely?

Seems to play normally. Back of jack to back of knuckle adjustment is good.


One thing that caught my eye was the double layer of damper lift felt.  
That may be to compensate for too little backrail felt thickness.  Which 
puts the tail of the keystick too low.  Which requires unscrewing the 
capstain by the same amount.  Which, if it's an angled capstain, moves 
the cap-heel contact point away from the balance rail and towards the 
wippen center.  Which will mess up your touch big-time.  Cost and 
difficulty of doing the backrail cloth correctly may have tempted the 
last guy to cut corners (i.e. thinner/narrower cloth with no cushion 
underneath).  Check out the height of the key at all 3 rails, and get 
the foundation right before moving on to Wip and Flange selection. 

This is worth checking but I don't recall anything looking out of the
ordinary. I'll check in the morning.

 I 
have to admit, I don't see how this could affect the jack clicking on 
the hammer flange, but it's another problem that still needs to be dealt 
with.
 scratchin' my head,
Mike

Greg Newell wrote:
> Greetings list members. 
> I have an action in the shop from an old "A" which was recently redone by
> someone other than me. The school didn't like my original quote and did
> something cheaper. Now they want me to fix the rather pronounced click and
> heavy feel when keys are played. I admit to being a bit puzzled by this
one.
> The problem is that the jack tip on a forte blow contacts the underside of
> the hammer flange producing the click. The new wippens, hammer shanks,
> flanges and hammers are Steinway's. The Renner Parts Kit yield no help.
I'm
> wondering if the rails are soldered in wrong. I've measured the distance
> between the hammer rail and the wippen rail on this "A" and on a much
newer
> "L" I have in the shop which, incidently, is from the Teflon era. The "L"
> rails are 129.5mm apart (on center) and the "A" rails are 128mm. The
action
> spread for the "L" is 111mm and the "A" is 110mm. Neither action is
anywhere
> near in compliance with the magic line theory. Just so I understand it's
> base of key at balance rail pin to wippen flange center pin and the
capstan
> should cross that line during half key travel and the other being wippen
> flange center pin to hammer flange center pin and the base of the knuckle
> should cross the line at half key travel. Sure hope I'm wrong here since
> neither of the actions is even close. There are also double felts on the
> keystick ends for damper lift if that is any kind of a clue to someone.
Also
> new white keytops were installed but the keystick was not milled down to
> accommodate the new thicker plastics. I have some budget with which to
work
> this out but I can't go too nuts. I'm hoping to retain the new (old) parts
> since much of their money will need to be spent on my time. Any ideas?
>
> All the best,
> Greg Newell
>
>
>