Steinway action noise

[Greg Newell]

David,
	I'll take your word for it that only Renner used hexagonal shanks
but what about those wippens? I thought that the Renners had buckskin that
did NOT wrap under the lever. What angle , approximately, should the jack be
at? Would comparing it to the "L" action be helpful?

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of David Love
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:47 PM
To: 'Pianotech List'
Subject: RE: Steinway action noise

The hexagonal shank is typical of Renner.  I don't know of anyone else doing
it.  Steinway was putting some Renner part on their pianos for a while,
though I don't know if it was these models.  I think you will need to shim
out the wippen rail (you might try it and see what it accomplishes in terms
of the jack contacting the flange) and as Ed mentioned it would be
worthwhile looking at the jack angle when at rest under the knuckle.  

David Love
davidlovepianos at comcast.net 
www.davidlovepianos.com

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Greg Newell
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:40 PM
To: 'Pianotech List'
Subject: RE: Steinway action noise

David,
	I'm not sure that I can tell whose parts they are. They don't appear
to be Renner. I think the centers look to weird to be Renner and the
buckskin wraps under the rep lever. Renner's don't do that.
I was not able to get any configuration from the Renner parts kit to look
like anything any more workable than what is already there. While I did not
directly measure the action spread with different part the all had the drop
screw too far in to the rep lever buckskin. Currently the rep lever is so
far under the hammer flange that I'm not sure the drop screw is even in
play. I've gone through cursory regulation on sample note throughout the
action and nothing comes close to eliminating the excess travel of the jack
in it's window. Even if the regulation is such that the jack just clears the
knuckle there is too much travel on a hard blow and the tip contacts the
flange. I could use thicker felt in the lever window but it seems like a
bandaid to do that and I'm not finding the real problem. Thoughts?

Greg




-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of David Love
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 9:37 AM
To: 'Pianotech List'
Subject: RE: Steinway action noise

Are these Renner parts?  The shank/flange seems to be?  If so, the spread
should be 113 mm.  Did you say that it was either 110 or 111?  That would
place the drop screw in a better position and increase the jack clearance.
That can be achieved by shimming the wippen flange.  With properly regulated
dip and aftertouch, the jack should never get to the position shown.  It
should clear the knuckle only fractionally.  That's my initial thought.  

David Love
davidlovepianos at comcast.net 
www.davidlovepianos.com

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Greg Newell
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:47 AM
To: 'Pianotech List'
Subject: RE: Steinway action noise

OK folks,
I finally have some pics that might prove helpful. I may have to do multiple
emails though so it passes through the filters in a timely fashion. Here's
the first showing direct manipulation of the wippen. Note where the drop
screw contacts the leather. The jack tip is contacting the hammer flange in
between the hammer shank ears.

More to follow.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of A440A at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:23 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: Steinway action noise

Greg  writes:

<< . I've forgotten the numbers but remember these are Steinway parts. I
wouldn't expect to get something too far out here. >>

(ahem),  Steinway offers a variety of parts,and there have been stock parts 
sent me that certainly did not fit.  The jack/hammerflange contact is not 
unheard of.  Your problem is more likely in the rails than the parts.  If
the 
hammerflange rail is just slightly rotated, there is interference.  The pin
to pin 
distance may be correct, but the flange will be out of place.  Ususally when

this happens, the drop screws are turned all the way up.  If no new parts
are 
available, you can often stop the problem by removing the proximal half of
the 
jack, near the top.  
Regards, 



Ed Foote RPT 
http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html
www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html
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