stretching wire

[pianoguru at cox.net]

---- David Andersen <david at davidandersenpianos.com> wrote: 
> Thanks, Dean. Great post. Calming.
> xoDA

DITTO!  Not only calming, but the most accurate and to the point of this thread.

Frank Emerson

> 
> On Apr 9, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Dean May wrote:
> 
> >>> It's the best evidence I could find out there among real
> > engineering sources.
> >
> >
> > Well here is one engineering source that is definitely not the final
> > authority, but I do have a mechanical engineering degree, BSME, and  
> > I am a
> > PE (Professional Engineer license). I am not aware of any steel  
> > wire that
> > has the kind of elasticity you are talking about (if I understood  
> > what you
> > have been saying). All of it will take some permanent set after  
> > being put
> > under tension and released, and all of it will creep when placed under
> > tension. Now it does reach a place where the amount of creep  
> > exponentially
> > approaches zero as the tension is maintained (i.e., the elastic  
> > deformation
> > (slack) is removed). Combine this with the soundboard becoming  
> > settled and
> > all the bend areas of the wire being set and you have tuning  
> > stability.
> >
> >>> But then I'd be at a loss as to why low panel compression rib
> >> supported soundboards with laminated bridge caps stay in tune
> >> so much better than traditionally built panel supported boards
> >> with solid caps, using the same ever stretching wire. And no,
> >> that's not my wild hair notion either, but is reported by
> >> techs I've done belly work for.
> >
> > No reason to be at a loss: the wire has reached a point where creep is
> > negligible, and your boards are more stable than others. End result is
> > better tuning stability. This does not prove by any stretch (no pun
> > intended) that the initial creep did not happen.
> >
> > Dean
> >
> > Dean May             cell 812.239.3359
> >
> > PianoRebuilders.com   812.235.5272
> >
> > Terre Haute IN  47802
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org]  
> > On Behalf
> > Of Ron Nossaman
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:44 PM
> > To: Pianotech List
> > Subject: Re: stretching wire
> >
> >
> >> The fact is you simply can't bear to have facts demonstrated to  
> >> you that
> >> aren't written ad nauseam in the Gospel according Ron Nossaman and  
> >> that
> >> any serious scientific data is beyond your powers of understanding.
> >
> > Sorry John. This isn't some wild hair notion I cooked up on my
> > own. It's the best evidence I could find out there among real
> > engineering sources. This doesn't have my ego wrapped up in it
> > anywhere. As I have said repeatedly, if you have an
> > authoritative source that says modern music wire stretches in
> > the long term under the conditions found in real pianos, I'd
> > love to see it. It would make life so much easier to be able
> > to blame the wire for everything.
> >
> > But then I'd be at a loss as to why low panel compression rib
> > supported soundboards with laminated bridge caps stay in tune
> > so much better than traditionally built panel supported boards
> > with solid caps, using the same ever stretching wire. And no,
> > that's not my wild hair notion either, but is reported by
> > techs I've done belly work for.
> >
> >
> >> In the patent I suggested you look at, published in 1985,
> > what sort of wire do you think they were dealing with, for
> > heavens' sake?!  Of course you did not read it.
> >
> > Apparently not, but then patents have been issued for
> > perpetual motion machines, which might cast some doubt as to
> > it's being a credible information source. I'll wait for the
> > diversionary chaff to clear and see if a real echo appears on
> > the screen.
> >
> > Ron N
> >
>