Sorry, that logic does not compute. If the fair market value of the piano is $25,000, he makes the most money by selling it for $25,000, not by selling it for less than it's worth and writing off the difference. If he's already planning to sell it for less than $25,000, then he clearly believes that it is worth less than $25,000, and is asking for a fraudulently inflated appraisal. Noah Haverkamp wrote: > I see no reason to suppose this person is guilty of fraud in this > sense. He does not imply that the appraiser is to create a value > greater than the fair market value so that he may deceptively profit. > It is an easy thing to infer, however. But the tone of intent in > written word is easily misunderstood. The only thing we know for > certain is that he/she wants to take advantage of the legal system to > avoid losing money he/she does not want to lose. We are all guilty of > that. However, we differ in our style of completing that task. -Noah > > From: > paulrevenkojones at aol.com > To: > ilvey at sbcglobal.net, pianotech at ptg.org > David: > > Do we all know the word "fraud"? > > To _solicit or create_ a value which is not a "fair market value" in > order to cause a purported capital loss on the sale is fraud. > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Ilvedson <ilvey at sbcglobal.net> > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 2:23 pm > Subject: [pianotech] (no subject) > > I have a customer who emailed me the following: > "Thanks for your reply. Because of how taxes work, if we could get a > written appraisal on the piano of $20,000.00-$25,000.00 we could sell > the piano for less and then "write off" the remainder. For example, if > the appraisal was $20,000.00 we would sell the piano for about > $15,000.00 and if the appraisal was higher we would sell it for even > less. " > Does that sound right? I don't see how they can write off a personal > sale...???? > > David Ilvedson, RPT > Pacifica, CA 94044 > > Noah Haverkamp Frere > Know-a Piano? > http://www.knowapiano.com > 347-308-0094 > > > > --- On *Sat, 12/6/08, pianotech-request at ptg.org > /<pianotech-request at ptg.org>/* wrote: > > From: pianotech-request at ptg.org <pianotech-request at ptg.org> > Subject: pianotech Digest, Vol 2, Issue 44 > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 5:18 AM > > Send pianotech mailing list submissions to > pianotech at ptg.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech_ptg.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pianotech-request at ptg.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pianotech-owner at ptg.org > > When replying, please edit your > Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pianotech digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Refinishing ebony sharps? (kurt baxter) > 2. Re: new testing requirement (Joe And Penny Goss) > 3. Re: Refinishing ebony sharps? (Michael Spreeman) > 4. Re: Refinishing ebony sharps? (David Ilvedson) > 5. Re: (no subject) (paulrevenkojones at aol.com) > 6. Re: appraisals (Kendall Ross Bean) > > > Ok, what are my options to re-black worn ebony sharps? > > I have only attempted this myself once, and the stuff I used (some > sort of spray black lacquer I think) > did this really horrible crazing/cracking thing as it dried. > > A refinisher friend told me it was a result of the lacquer > reacting with the finger oils that had soaked > into the parts that were worn down to bare wood. She ended up > having to aggressively strip all the > old black off and start new. > > Is there any way to avoid this? > Can I make then look better (if not perfect) without stripping them? > > > > > [kurt] > Or certified NUTS > Joe Goss RPT > Mother Goose Tools > imatunr at srvinet.com <mailto:imatunr at srvinet.com> > www.mothergoosetools.com <http://www.mothergoosetools.com> > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* wimblees at aol.com <mailto:wimblees at aol.com> > *To:* Pianotech at PTG.org <mailto:Pianotech at PTG.org> > *Sent:* Friday, December 05, 2008 3:00 PM > *Subject:* [pianotech] new testing requirement > > We're not doing the tuning exam right. We should be testing > under 'normal" conditions. which include, but are not limited > to: TV blaring right next to the piano, kids screaming, the > garbage truck going down the street, and backing up, lawn > mowing, dishes being washed in the next room, and the ceiling > fan going. At least that's what the conditions were this > morning. If anyone can tune a piano with all that going on, > then he should be qualified as an RPT. > > Happy Holidays everyone. > > Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT > Piano Tuner/Technician > Mililani, Oahu, HI > 808-349-2943 > Author of: > The Business of Piano Tuning > available from Potter Press > www.pianotuning.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Listen to 350+ music, sports, & news radio stations – > including songs for the holidays – FREE while you browse. > Start Listening Now > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000013>! > > > Ebony wood is oily and fairly difficult to finish with lacquer; > urethane tends to work better. Sand them, wipe down with acetone, > dye, and finish. The most success I've had with making ebony > sharps black is to die them with a high quality shoe makers > leather dye and finish over that. The leather dye works well on > the lesser quality sharps. > > High quality ebony sharps were never really intended to look > "absolutely black". They look and feel amazing if sanded down to > 600 grit and buffed. If one wants pure black sharps with no grain, > use plastic. > > > / Michael Spreeman > / www.RavenscroftPianos.com <http://www.RavenscroftPianos.com> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. Get your > Hotmail® account. > <http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008> > > Consider the beauty of natural ebony...blacks, > browns...beautiful. That being said Pianotek has a black tint > especially for sharps...I haven't used it... > > David Ilvedson, RPT > Pacifica, CA 94044 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Original message > From: "kurt baxter" > To: "Pianotech List" > Received: 12/5/2008 8:28:06 PM > Subject: [pianotech] Refinishing ebony sharps? > > Ok, what are my options to re-black worn ebony sharps? > > I have only attempted this myself once, and the stuff I used (some > sort of spray black lacquer I think) > did this really horrible crazing/cracking thing as it dried. > > A refinisher friend told me it was a result of the lacquer > reacting with the finger oils that had soaked > into the parts that were worn down to bare wood. She ended up > having to aggressively strip all the > old black off and start new. > > Is there any way to avoid this? > Can I make then look better (if not perfect) without stripping them? > > > > > [kurt] > > David: > > Do we all know the word "fraud"? > > To _solicit or create_ a value which is not a "fair market value" > in order to cause a purported capital loss on the sale is fraud. > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Ilvedson <ilvey at sbcglobal.net> > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 2:23 pm > Subject: [pianotech] (no subject) > > I have a customer who emailed me the following: > "Thanks for your reply. Because of how taxes work, if we could get > a written appraisal on the piano of $20,000.00-$25,000.00 we could > sell the piano for less and then "write off" the remainder. For > example, if the appraisal was $20,000.00 we would sell the piano > for about $15,000.00 and if the appraisal was higher we would sell > it for even less. " > Does that sound right? I don't see how they can write off a > personal sale...???? > > David Ilvedson, RPT > Pacifica, CA 94044 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Listen to 350+ music, sports, & news radio stations – including > songs for the holidays – FREE while you browse. Start Listening > Now > <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000013>! > > David~ > > I have been reading these posts in this thread. > > For what it's worth, and for future reference, we specialize in > piano appraisals, and I get over to the San Francisco peninsula to > appraise instruments there on a regular basis. > > We are based in Walnut Creek. > > You can see sample pages of our comprehensive appraisal at > > http://www.pianofinders.com/buyers/pianoshowroom/Steinway262369appa.htm > > It is a 7 page document, including an on-site inspection report, > recommended repairs (including cost), and a number of different > types of market valuations, including estimated values before and > after repairs (to help ascertain whether repairs are worth doing). > We include replacement value, current market value, and wholesale > value wherever possible. We have evolved this appraisal over 25 > years in business, based on needs of piano owners, buyers, > sellers, estate appraisers, insurance companies, moving companies, > dealers, rebuilders, refinishers, and numerous other interested > parties. > > When I appraise a piano, I realize I can't be too terribly > concerned about how people are going to ultimately use the > appraisal, because I don't have a lot of control over that: after > the appraisal is completed it's basically out of my hands. There > are legal and illegal ways to "write off" things. I assume that > most people would want to consult an accountant or an attorney > specializing in tax law before risking an audit, fines, or > possibly a jail term. > > Karen, my partner in the business, and our market value > specialist, is also on the board of a 501 (3) (c) non-profit > organization qualified to receive charitable donations (including > pianos) and to issue donation receipts so those donating can claim > tax deductions (or "write-offs"). -So she knows quite a bit about > both piano sales, and piano donations, and what can be written off > and what can't, and the rules governing those transactions. > > For example, generally speaking, if a piano is being "donated" in > some way for a "write-off", the donor themselves may declare the > value as long as it is under $5,000. > > If it is $5000. or over, then an independent appraiser > must declare the value. There are rules governing who can be a > qualified appraiser in this circumstance. Generally they cannot be > a party to the transaction, or someone who would stand to benefit > from the transaction in a way that might influence their valuation > of the piano. > > The organization or institution accepting the donation can't be > just anybody, either. They have to be recognized by the government > as a certain type of non-profit or charitable organization, in > order to be able to issue the proper donation receipt for a tax > deduction. > > There are apparently many ways that a person could claim a tax > "write-off" on a piano, including depreciation, donation, > irrecoverable business losses, etc., -even possibly selling a > piano. But you would have to consult a tax specialist to find out > how it could be done legitimately and legally. > > More info on charitable contributions and tax write-offs can be > found here: > > http://www.pianofinders.com/owners/instructions_for_form_8283.htm > > Sincerely~ > > Kendall Ross Bean > > PianoFinders > www.pianofinders.com <http://www.pianofinders.com/> > e-mail: kenbean at pianofinders.com <mailto:kenbean at pianofinders.com> > phone: (925) 676-3355 > > /Connecting Pianos and People/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* David Ilvedson [mailto:ilvey at sbcglobal.net] > *Sent:* Friday, December 05, 2008 7:14 PM > *To:* pianotech at ptg.org; ilvey at sbcglobal.net > *Subject:* Re: [pianotech] appraisals > > I see I'm getting no takers now... '-] > > David Ilvedson, RPT > Pacifica, CA 94044 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Original message > From: "David Ilvedson" > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Received: 12/5/2008 11:38:07 AM > Subject: [pianotech] appraisals > > Who in the Bay Area...Peninsula does piano appraisals? > > David Ilvedson, RPT > Pacifica, CA 94044 > > _______________________________________________ > pianotech mailing list > pianotech at ptg.org > http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech_ptg.org > >
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