Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:10:53 -0800, "David Ilvedson" <ilvey at sbcglobal.net> wrote: > What does that mean? Are you hedging...? > > > David Ilvedson, RPT > Pacifica, CA 94044 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Original message > From: PAULREVENKOJONES at aol.com > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Received: 12/6/2008 3:06:33 PM > Subject: Re: [pianotech] (no subject) > > or securitize-able > > In a message dated 12/6/2008 9:29:32 P.M. Central Standard Time, > davidlovepianos at comcast.net writes: > > Only if it's a stock. > > David Love > www.davidlovepianos.com > Sounds like a joke to me, David. It seems that lately Wall Street types have been converting anything and everything into securities - like worthless mortgages, for example, which is what got us into our current economic mess. So unless these people "securitize" their piano - that is, convert its value into some sort of stock-like securities which can be bought and sold in a speculative manner by people who buy the securities for the purpose of "investment" in hopes of making a profit on their transactions - any losses on the sale of this asset are not tax deductible. Investment losses or business losses are tax deductible under prescribed circumstances. For example, if this piano were a "business asset" - say, used for rental - then any real loss on the sale (minus depreciation) would be deductible - regardless of its appraised value. In general, a "loss" deduction can only be taken with regard to the purchase price - and not with regard to any appraised value. If you buy stocks or a business asset for $4000, then the value increments to $9000, then you sell it for $2500, your loss for tax purposes is $1500. As far as I know, the only time the appraised value matters for taxes is if the item is donated to a non-profit entity. There can be no "loss" deductions taken on sale of property owned for personal use. So I agree with those who advised you not to touch this with a 3.048 meter pole. Do these people a favor and refer them to a good tax professional... Israel Stein > > -----Original Message----- > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] > On Behalf > Of David Ilvedson > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:59 PM > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] (no subject) > > These are good people and I don't think fraud is their angle. > They gave > some examples of appraised value and what they could do tax > wise...my post > was about the tax angle. I didn't think someone selling personal > property > could take a loss in value as a tax write-off. I still don't > think so... > > David Ilvedson, RPT > Pacifica, CA 94044 > > ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- > From: "Kendall Ross Bean" <kenbean at pacbell.net> > To: <pianotech at ptg.org> > Received: 12/6/2008 12:59:52 PM > Subject: Re: [pianotech] (no subject) > > > >Perhaps I missed something, but it is not at all clear to me why > many seem > >to be automatically assuming that the communication from David > Ilvedson's > >customer below is soliciting some sort of fraudulent behavior. > > >I simply don't have have enough information to make that assessment. > > >I don't know, for instance, what preceded this communication, or > if the > >customer had any basis (like a prior appraisal or valuation of > some sort on > >the piano in question) for the figures he is quoting. Perhaps he > also has > >some figures from his accountant that he is trying to work with. > I mean, he > >does say "If the appraisal was [this figure], or if the appraisal was > >higher..." which to me seems to acknowledge that he doesn't > assume what the > >appraised value will be. > > >Perhaps David Ilvedson could cast some more light on the > circumstances > >surrounding this "snapshot" he has given us. > > >David Love commented in a recent post on this particular > situation, "I do > >appraisals but I don't fill in numbers on request. The appraisal > must be > >based in some kind of reality." I think most of us here would > subscribe to > >that. > > >But to me it is not at all clear that that is what this customer > is trying > >to do. > > >I can see ways that a person writing this could be legitimately > and legally > >trying to minimize the amount of taxes he has to pay. Don't we > all try to > do > >that? > > >If I understood the initial post correctly, David Ilvedson simply > commented > >that he didn't see how a person selling a piano (rather than > donating it in > >its entirety) could also claim a tax deduction on it. It seems > some are > >assuming that that is not possible, but I'm not at all sure that > is the > >case. > > >It also seems that some are assuming, from this limited > communication, that > >the customer is trying to tell the appraiser what they would like > the piano > >appraised at. Like I say, based on the limited "snapshot" we have > been > >given, that is not at all clear to me. I would need more > information before > >deciding "not to touch this with a thirty-nine foot pole". > > >In recent years, I have become a lot more careful about assuming > that I > know > >a person's intent. > > >Like I say, maybe I am missing something here that others can > plainly see. > > >(Wouldn't be the first time! ;-) ) > > >Perhaps someone could fill me in. > > >Sincerely~ > > >Kendall Ross Bean > > >~PianoFinders > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Ron Nossaman [mailto:rnossaman at cox.net] > >Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 1:39 PM > >To: David Ilvedson; pianotech at ptg.org > >Subject: Re: [pianotech] (no subject) > > >David Ilvedson wrote: > >> > >> > >> I have a customer who emailed me the following: > >> > >> "Thanks for your reply. Because of how taxes work, if we could > get a > >> written appraisal on the piano of $20,000.00-$25,000.00 we > could sell > >> the piano for less and then "write off" the remainder. For > example, if > >> the appraisal was $20,000.00 we would sell the piano for about > >> $15,000.00 and if the appraisal was higher we would sell it for > even > less. > >" > >> > >> Does that sound right? I don't see how they can write off a > personal > >> sale...???? > >> > >> > >> David Ilvedson, RPT > > >Why not appraise it at $40k, and offer to haul it off for them? > > >I'd wish them luck with whoever their appraiser finally turns out > to be, > >draw the drapes, turn out the lights, and check the caller ID before > >answering the phone for a while. > >Ron N > > > >
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