David, They can sell personal property to a non-profit organization and take the difference between the cash they received and the Fair Market Value of the personal property as a tax write-off, if the non-profit gives them a donation receipt for that difference in value. See: "In general, § 1.170A-1(h) provides that if a taxpayer transfers to a charitable organization cash or property that is partly a charitable contribution and partly in consideration for goods or services, the taxpayer is allowed a charitable contribution deduction for the excess, if any, of the cash or fair market value of the property transferred over the fair market value of the goods or services the organization provides in return. See also United States v. American Bar Endowment, 477 U.S. 105, 117-118 (1986); Rev. Rul. 67-246, 1967-2 C.B. 104. " See: http://www.irs.gov/irb/2005-25_IRB/ar09.html Karen Lile Appraiser Piano Finders -----Original Message----- From: David Ilvedson [mailto:ilvey at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:59 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] (no subject) These are good people and I don't think fraud is their angle. They gave some examples of appraised value and what they could do tax wise...my post was about the tax angle. I didn't think someone selling personal property could take a loss in value as a tax write-off. I still don't think so... David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "Kendall Ross Bean" <kenbean at pacbell.net> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Received: 12/6/2008 12:59:52 PM Subject: Re: [pianotech] (no subject) >Perhaps I missed something, but it is not at all clear to me why many >seem to be automatically assuming that the communication from David >Ilvedson's customer below is soliciting some sort of fraudulent behavior. >I simply don't have have enough information to make that assessment. >I don't know, for instance, what preceded this communication, or if the >customer had any basis (like a prior appraisal or valuation of some >sort on the piano in question) for the figures he is quoting. Perhaps >he also has some figures from his accountant that he is trying to work >with. I mean, he does say "If the appraisal was [this figure], or if >the appraisal was higher..." which to me seems to acknowledge that he >doesn't assume what the appraised value will be. >Perhaps David Ilvedson could cast some more light on the circumstances >surrounding this "snapshot" he has given us. >David Love commented in a recent post on this particular situation, "I >do appraisals but I don't fill in numbers on request. The appraisal >must be based in some kind of reality." I think most of us here would >subscribe to that. >But to me it is not at all clear that that is what this customer is >trying to do. >I can see ways that a person writing this could be legitimately and >legally trying to minimize the amount of taxes he has to pay. Don't we >all try to do that? >If I understood the initial post correctly, David Ilvedson simply >commented that he didn't see how a person selling a piano (rather than >donating it in its entirety) could also claim a tax deduction on it. It >seems some are assuming that that is not possible, but I'm not at all >sure that is the case. >It also seems that some are assuming, from this limited communication, >that the customer is trying to tell the appraiser what they would like >the piano appraised at. Like I say, based on the limited "snapshot" we >have been given, that is not at all clear to me. I would need more >information before deciding "not to touch this with a thirty-nine foot pole". >In recent years, I have become a lot more careful about assuming that I >know a person's intent. >Like I say, maybe I am missing something here that others can plainly see. >(Wouldn't be the first time! ;-) ) >Perhaps someone could fill me in. >Sincerely~ >Kendall Ross Bean >~PianoFinders >-----Original Message----- >From: Ron Nossaman [mailto:rnossaman at cox.net] >Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 1:39 PM >To: David Ilvedson; pianotech at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [pianotech] (no subject) >David Ilvedson wrote: >> >> >> I have a customer who emailed me the following: >> >> "Thanks for your reply. Because of how taxes work, if we could get a >> written appraisal on the piano of $20,000.00-$25,000.00 we could sell >> the piano for less and then "write off" the remainder. For example, >> if the appraisal was $20,000.00 we would sell the piano for about >> $15,000.00 and if the appraisal was higher we would sell it for even less. >" >> >> Does that sound right? I don't see how they can write off a personal >> sale...???? >> >> >> David Ilvedson, RPT >Why not appraise it at $40k, and offer to haul it off for them? >I'd wish them luck with whoever their appraiser finally turns out to >be, draw the drapes, turn out the lights, and check the caller ID >before answering the phone for a while. >Ron N
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