Hi, That other person is Virgil Smith, an ardent aural piano tuner, who participated in tuning contests with Jim Coleman. I've been considering the purchase of an ETD to explore and maybe speed up my tuning. I find that the concept that string tension is like a big balanced spring that changes with overall tension change helps me. I may be overly fussy, but small changes like a beat and a half or two a second means that the piano will be in nominal tune but when I check the mid range against the bass or the top against the bass or mid range, I usually find that there is a slight settling. It makes the difference between sparkling clarity when the piano's 'hatural' inharmonicity has been reconciled by its sympathetic resonance and what the piano's scale dictates to be the graduation of all the intervals that can be checked. But, that makes me a slow tuner. Would an EBT be useful in my case? I've come to respect well cone elctronically tuned pianos. They have come a long way. I started tuning in 1969, working with a perfvectionistic RPT, named Ed Sanders and have been an RPT myself. I'll have to retest, but considering the standardization that has taken place since I first tested (1972 or 1973, I don't remember), it will be an adventure. t Dave Cuffel Anchorage, AkFrom: pianotech-request at ptg.orgSubject: pianotech Digest, Vol 2, Issue 145To: pianotech at ptg.orgDate: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:40:25 -0800Send pianotech mailing list submissions to pianotech at ptg.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech_ptg.orgor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pianotech-request at ptg.org You can reach the person managing the list at pianotech-owner at ptg.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of pianotech digest..."--Forwarded Message Attachment--From: davidlovepianos at comcast.netTo: pianotech at ptg.orgDate: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:35:41 -0800Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposal It was Jim Coleman and …(help me here folks) and I believethe results were that there was no perceptible difference in quality of thetuning. How it was measured I don’t recall. Nor do I recallwhat type of piano was used. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org[mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Duaine & LauraHechlerSent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:28 PMTo: pianotech at ptg.orgSubject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposal So was Terry right - that "Experienced tuners could nottell definitively which was aural and which was etd! "David Love wrote: Been done. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com Original messageFrom: "Duaine & Laura Hechler" To: pianotech at ptg.orgReceived: 12/19/2008 6:58:06 PMSubject: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposal Since there are many and heated views of which tuning way isbetter ....I propose a tuning contest and final report.Rules:- Find an independent person or team to officiate- Provide two identical piano and settings- Two highly respected tuners that are proficient in there respective skills(Aural and ETD)- Tune each piano at A440 - Equal Temperament- One tune aurally- One tune with ETD- Repeat (with the same tuners) for each Brand, Size and Style of pianoResults:- Using an independent way to determine accuracy of the pitch of each note (all88 notes) (Tuning forks / ETD in "test" mode" / etc)- If ETD is used, the initial one for the tuning can not be used.- Obviously, this rules out the tuning stability (how long the piano stays intune), hammer technique, etc. (All the human elements that can't be accuratelymeasured)Extra idea:- Repeat contest with each commercial ETD.Eagerly waiting the results,Duaine -- Duaine HechlerPiano, Player Piano, Pump OrganTuning, Servicing & RebuildingReed Organ Society MemberFlorissant, MO 63034(314) 838-5587dahechler at charter.netwww.hechlerpianoandorgan.com--Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years--Forwarded Message Attachment--From: pcpoulson at sbcglobal.netTo: pianotech at ptg.orgDate: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:40:01 -0800Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposal My recollection is that Jim Coleman was one of the tuners, and used the ETD. I don't recall the other one. Patrick C. PoulsonRegistered Piano TechnicianPiano Technicians Guild ----- Original Message ----- From: pianolover 88 To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:06 PM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposal This "test" has been done! I can't remember exactly when or who was invloved, but I do know that they were both well know and respected tuners. The result? Experienced tuners could not tell definitively which was aural and which was etd! Terry PetersonAccurate Piano ServiceUniGeezer.com"Going to the extreme...on just ONE wheel!" Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:58:06 -0600From: dahechler at charter.netTo: pianotech at ptg.orgSubject: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposalSince there are many and heated views of which tuning way is better ....I propose a tuning contest and final report.Rules:- Find an independent person or team to officiate- Provide two identical piano and settings- Two highly respected tuners that are proficient in there respective skills (Aural and ETD)- Tune each piano at A440 - Equal Temperament- One tune aurally- One tune with ETD- Repeat (with the same tuners) for each Brand, Size and Style of pianoResults:- Using an independent way to determine accuracy of the pitch of each note (all 88 notes) (Tuning forks / ETD in "test" mode" / etc)- If ETD is used, the initial one for the tuning can not be used.- Obviously, this rules out the tuning stability (how long the piano stays in tune), hammer technique, etc. (All the human elements that can't be accurately measured)Extra idea:- Repeat contest with each commercial ETD.Eagerly waiting the results,Duaine Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. Get your Hotmail® account now. --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: ilvey at sbcglobal.netTo: pianotech at ptg.orgDate: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:40:19 -0800Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposal Jim Coleman did this kind of thing with his piano tuned to some sort of temperment other thanET...I believe most didn't hear it...Bill Bremmers quasi-Victorian temperment won another contest...BUT that isn't the point...PTG and its members paid for the conventions that had contests...a slight part of the overall convention... David Ilvedson, RPTPacifica, CA 94044 Original messageFrom: "Duaine & Laura Hechler" To: pianotech at ptg.orgReceived: 12/19/2008 7:27:46 PMSubject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposal So was Terry right - that "Experienced tuners could not tell definitively which was aural and which was etd! "David Love wrote: Been done. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com Original messageFrom: "Duaine & Laura Hechler" To: pianotech at ptg.orgReceived: 12/19/2008 6:58:06 PMSubject: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposal Since there are many and heated views of which tuning way is better ....I propose a tuning contest and final report.Rules:- Find an independent person or team to officiate- Provide two identical piano and settings- Two highly respected tuners that are proficient in there respective skills (Aural and ETD)- Tune each piano at A440 - Equal Temperament- One tune aurally- One tune with ETD- Repeat (with the same tuners) for each Brand, Size and Style of pianoResults:- Using an independent way to determine accuracy of the pitch of each note (all 88 notes) (Tuning forks / ETD in "test" mode" / etc)- If ETD is used, the initial one for the tuning can not be used.- Obviously, this rules out the tuning stability (how long the piano stays in tune), hammer technique, etc. (All the human elements that can't be accurately measured)Extra idea:- Repeat contest with each commercial ETD.Eagerly waiting the results,Duaine -- Duaine HechlerPiano, Player Piano, Pump OrganTuning, Servicing & RebuildingReed Organ Society MemberFlorissant, MO 63034(314) 838-5587dahechler at charter.netwww.hechlerpianoandorgan.com--Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years _________________________________________________________________ Life on your PC is safer, easier, and more enjoyable with Windows Vista®. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032870/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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