It is completely impossible to hear aurally the difference between 440 and 441. Or better yet, 880 and 882. And that's what the EDT will check for in the test. The test isn't designed to measure "the best tuned piano". It's designed to measure certain criteria that's the human hear can't hear without assistance. I tune with EDT most of the time, not because it's a better tuned piano, but because after tuning 5 or 6 pianos per day, my brain starts to hurt. It takes a lot of mental endurance to tune ALL DAY, and using a EDT takes the thinking about the tuning away. I know the customers I have, and which ones want a better tuning, and I'll take the time aurally to check my work, whether it's aligned with the EDT or not. But I also know my customers that don't necessarily care about the tuning. As long as their Pearl River is sitting out in the front window with the sun beating down on it, and everyone in the neighborhood can see it, and little 8-year-old Suzie can do her scales. It is not worth my mental stability, or a headache, to give this customer a perfect 99% accurate aural concert tuning when in 7 days it will be flat or sharp again because of the furnace vent blowing up on the soundboard. There are certain customers that just don't seem to care, no matter how much I try to persuade them to treat their beautiful instrument (and I use that term loosely in the PR case) with TLC. And in this case, and EDT tuning will suffice. Don't get me wrong, I tune aurally regularly, when needed. But I disagree that a technician NEEDS to know how to tune aurally to be considered a Piano Technician. So people just aren't born with the natural ability to hear certain things. That shouldn't detour them from being a well-respected great Piano Technician. I know a few Techs in the area that don't tune well because they can't hear sharply beats and harmonics, but they have the intellect and respect of the technical end of being a technician, and they are considered one of the best rebuilders in the area. I use the example from Matt, when he checked the older gentleman's tuning and it was "all over the place". I also knew a guy, in this 80's, great technician, funny, experienced. He tuned aurally for 60 years and considered his tunings "right on and perfect", when truth be told.. they weren't. But his stubborn nature won't change his mind, because he had refused to believe his aural tuning had faded. And anyone not willing to listen to the EDT-pro crowd is also stubborn, and some day will refuse to believe their aural tuning will fade. The art of aurally tuning is not an art at all. A tuning is either perfect, or less than perfect. How is that art? Art is considered perfect in the eye of the beholder. A piano tuning has to be perfect for everyone to enjoy it, as pianos were meant to be heard. That's my opinion. don't shoot the messenger. Dave Foster From: Ryan Sowers [mailto:tunerryan at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 9:21 PM To: toddpianoworks at att.net; pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural vs. ETD On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Matthew Todd <toddpianoworks at att.net> wrote: I'm assuming most of you read the article in the latest journal regarding aural vs. ETD. I would like to hear more comments. I wonder which is the most accurate. It seems to me that ones who believe that aural is THE most accurate way have been doing it for 50+ years and have just not had the opportunity to try the latest ETD's which have come a long way over the years. I say that because I was discussing this subject with a "strictly aural tuner" a while back and he told me that his ears are still as sharp as ever. This gentleman by the way is in his 70's, with no hearing aids. After he tuned a piano, I checked it with an ETD, and his tuning was all over the place. Plus, I know that you have to tune for the PTG exam, for the most part, aurally. But when your work is checked, do they not use an ETD? Can anyone tell me why that is? Anyway, just my thoughts at the moment. TODD PIANO WORKS Matthew Todd, Piano Technician (979) 248-9578 http://www.toddpianoworks.com <http://www.toddpianoworks.com/> I found myself applauding Susan Kline's comments the most. Some of us wackos actually ENJOY tuning aurally. I also find that my clients appreciate it and comment on it regularly. The fact that I'm an aural tuner and work for some of the pickiest clients in my area has been good for my reputation. Also I find that I get a little better at it each year. The fact that quality aural tuners are becoming more of a rarity these days, helps those of us who develope this skill to stand out from our competition - which is a helpful thing these day! So there could be a case for learning aural tuning from a strictly business point of view. It puts you in the catagory of a "real tuner". I've used ETD's some and I felt like a worker in a factory turning bolts. (Ever see Charlie Chaplin in "Modern Times?). When I first got into this business it didn't take me long to realize the top notch techs could all do a concert quality tuning without the aid of an electronic device. The ETD is only a good tool in the hands of a good aural tuner, IMHO. "If you can't tune aurally, you're not a piano tuner. Period." That's a quote by Steve Brady (who, by the way really enjoys using his cybertuner!) -- Ryan Sowers, RPT Puget Sound Chapter Olympia, WA www.pianova.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090404/31e01904/attachment-0001.html> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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