What's to correct? We find out what we do not know as we learn on our way to bettering ourselves. None of us can say we know it all. From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Dean May Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:57 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural vs. ETD >>We don't know, what we don't know until we know it. And we only know that until someone who knows more than us points out the error in our thinking. Dean Dean May cell 812.239.3359 PianoRebuilders.com 812.235.5272 Terre Haute IN 47802 _____ From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Gerald Groot Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 8:47 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural vs. ETD This second line is not great English but, it makes my point. We don't know, what we don't know until we know it. We don't know what we can't hear until we can hear it.. While a machine has it's use in every form, it has to be backed with a good ear and a certain amount of knowledge for proper use of the machine. In the case of an EDT, if we cannot hear properly, then we cannot detect if the machine is not setting it correctly. While it may be close, or it may be very close, it may not always be as close as we think. More often than not with beginners, (I know, I remember from when I was a beginner too) we think we can hear it but, we really can't and finally realize this at some point in time. For fun, just to see what it would do, a couple of different times on two different Steinway D's, I tuned the entire piano, unisons and all strictly with an EDT ONLY. I did not use my ears at all which was hard to do.. This included the highest and lowest of all strings. I can't count the amount of times it told me that it was dead on when in fact, it was not. In some cases, it was actually off by quit a lot. "IT" was listening to something other than what I was listening to. Especially in the bass wound wires. For this reason alone, a good ear is necessary which is the primary reason that PTG won't let us pass without being able to properly hear it. From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Alexander Lass Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 8:21 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural vs. ETD As a relatively new (and student) technician, my thoughts on this subject may not merit as much attention as those with more experience who have contributed. Still, I think it's important to show that not all associates see the aurally correct temperament requirement as a necessary "evil" to becoming an RPT. It may seem easy for those who have long since passed the exam to belabor its benefits, but I am really very happy that the PTG continues to uphold the tradition. I'm as tired as anyone of reading the comparisons of a piano technician to a surgeon or car mechanic, but let's not forget they all have something in common: each is a professional who provides a service to the community. They market themselves as having enough knowledge, training, and experience to perform certain tasks with certain fundamental and facile abilities that the public can be reasonably well assured that the job will be done correctly. I know that before my doctor could diagnose a torn ACL, she was probably able to name all the bones, muscles, tendons, and ligaments. Before that, I suspect that she learned the concept of the scientific method: these are fundamental to the study of medicine. The car mechanic can hook my car up to a machine that tells him the timing is off, and my understanding is that today's computers will even tell him what parts need to be adjusted to compensate for this. When he's done making these adjustments, though, I know he takes the car for a test drive to make sure everything feels right and that the car can perform certain function as it was designed. If Pythagoras hadn't discovered that a bunch of fifths didn't quite equal up to several octaves we might not have a job; pretty much anyone can tune a bunch of pure intervals (though, admittedly, stability would still be a challenge for most). Maybe I'm way off, but I see setting a solid temperament as about the most fundamental task a piano tuner can perform. Understanding the interval relationships and how to listen and test for the subtle differences is - in my opinion - the core of what we do. There is a real misunderstanding in all of this debate, that the aural temperament requirement of the PTG exam is in some way the organization's public condemnation of the ETD. I think that today's ETD's are fine instruments; just like today's medical technology and car diagnostics are wonderful tools. But there is a lot to be said about having a solid foundation in one's profession. That's all. Thanks to any who read this. Alex Aspiring RPT On Apr 4, 2009, at 8:55 AM, Duaine & Laura Hechler wrote: Dave Foster wrote: <snip> But I disagree that a technician NEEDS to know how to tune aurally to be considered a Piano Technician. AMEN, BROTHER So people just aren't born with the natural ability to hear certain things. That shouldn't detour them from being a well-respected great Piano Technician. AMEN, BROTHER <snip> That's my opinion. don't shoot the messenger. Dave Foster I'm going to AMEN the messenger to "infinity and beyond". It's too bad that other list members - and - the PTG can't share your (and my) feelings ! -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 dahechler at att.net www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com -- Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090404-0, 04/04/2009 Tested on: 4/4/2009 8:47:12 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090404-0, 04/04/2009 Tested on: 4/4/2009 11:15:50 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090404/07df62b5/attachment.html>
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC