Patrick,
I have a set of left run drill bits which work well for this type of problem.
Got them from a machinist who worked next door many years ago. Don't know where he
got them but McMaster, Fastenal, MSC, or other machinist supply should have them.
I like them since by running "backwards" they more often than not act like a screw remover.
Be sure to put a good clamp on the damper prior to doing any drilling. My preference is a #3 cabinet parallel clamp.
Small and effective without too much interference.
Regards,
Gerry C, RPT
West Chester University of PA
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: pcpoulson at sbcglobal.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:08:04 -0700
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Broken Damper Wire Screw Removal
Wim: That would be a good idea, except that the
damper tray is glued in place as well. I am hoping to not have to break that
glue joint if at all possible. This piano was not designed with ease of repair
in mind, as evidenced by other difficulties I have run into. It is a Ludwig,
with a Staib-Arendschein action.
Patrick
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: jonpage at comcast.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:32:01 -0400
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Broken Damper Wire Screw Removal
A small reverse-twist drill bit might drill in and grab the shank and
back it out.
Another method is to use a cut off wheel on a Dremel Tool to cut a slot and
then a small screwdriver turns it out.
--
Regards,
Jon Page
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: rnossaman at cox.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:40:34 -0500
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Broken Damper Wire Screw Removal
Patrick C. Poulson wrote:
> Hello: I am working on a grand that has glued-in damper flanges, and one
> of the bass dampers has a wire screw that is broken on flush with the
> wood. Does anyone have a reliable method for removing the broken stub? I
> have consider using a small hole cutter to remove the screw and
> surrounding wook, plugging and then redrilling for a new screw. Has
> anyone found an alternative?
> Thanks,
I'd try drilling it out in place. Odds are, the screw is
broken off below flush with the barrel, which should help with
centering the drill. Plan on replacing the barrel, and likely
the wire too. If that doesn't work, I'd consider splitting the
top block. All the options are ugly, and you can't see what
you're doing back there with any of them, but there are options.
Ron N
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: custos3 at comcast.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:46:19 -0700
Subject: [pianotech] PACE lessons printed in previous Journals?
Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:43:18 -0400 pianofritz50 at aol.com:
> Hi Ben, check April 1994's Journal for PACE Technical Lesson #8. I
> believe the other lessons precede & follow this issue.
>
> PS Gee, wouldn't it be nice if the PTG.org had these lessons
> (individually) in pdf form on their Resources' Web Site?? (Available
> for members only at no charge) It sure would help the Associates move
> towards their RPT, if that is one of the objectives of the PTG
> organization.
>
> Best Regards... Bill Fritz, St Louis Chapter editor
Please be aware that the Repairs section of the PACE Tech lessons has
been extensively revised and updated. The Regulation sections have also
been revised to reflect updated techniques, new tools and various other
changes that happened since 1994. Some of the recommendations in the
original PACE lessons have not been borne out by experience - at least
not universally so.
You would be much better off spending the few dollars that it costs to
order the current booklets from the PTG office.
Israel Stein
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: tuner at helmsmusic.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:34:15 -0700
Subject: Re: [pianotech] double-striking hammers on Chinese uprights
David -
Repinning flanges to address bobbling in uprights works for the same
reason that it does in grands. If the hammers are pinned too loose, there
is too much energy in the hammer assembly during aftertouch and it will
rebound and double-strike. Note that this typically happens on a blow that
isn't strong enough to put the hammer into check, but that IS strong
enough to make the hammer return to the string a second time.
When you say excessive damper spring tension is the culprit for "exactly
the reasons [I] mention", do you mean that it discourages the player from
following through the keystroke? If so, how does that explain bobbling in
the treble hammers that don't have dampers? And, wouldn't that be a player
technique/education issue and not a piano malfunction issue?
Scott
------
Scott A. Helms, Registered Piano Technician
480-818-3871
www.helmsmusic.net
> Why would repining flanges help with double striking?
>
> As I mentioned earlier, and as was discussed in a previous thread, excess
> tension in the damper springs is a common culprit for double striking
> (especially in some new pianos) for exactly the reasons you mention below.
>
>
> David Love
> www.davidlovepianos.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Scott Helms, RPT
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 8:56 PM
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] double-striking hammers on chinese uprights
>
> I'm surprised that repinning the flanges didn't help - that always seems
> to do the trick for me. Have you tried reducing the blow distance to get
> more aftertouch? This was actually a thread on this list about a year ago,
> and some suggested that damper springs that are too strong could cause
> bobbling, although I've never been able to figure out why that would be
> the case (unless it just discourages the player from following through the
> entire keystroke) ...
>
> ------
> Scott A. Helms, Registered Piano Technician
> 480-818-3871
> www.helmsmusic.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: davidlovepianos at comcast.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:49:02 -0700
Subject: Re: [pianotech] double-striking hammers on Chinese uprights
I've not experience a case where adding a couple of grams of friction to the
flange would be enough to keep the hammer from bobbling if it was inclined
to do so in the first place for other reasons. If you add enough friction
to inhibit the hammer from moving freely likely you have added too much
friction to the flange and can create other problems with hammer return
speed.
Excess damper spring tension will inhibit (I wouldn't say discourage)
completion of the key stroke on light playing by adding excess and ever
increasing tension through the stroke. While you can certainly train the
player to play "harder" the piano shouldn't require that and taking some
tension off the damper springs will take care of the problem if the tension
is excessive which can be the cause. I've experience this several times on
new uprights and made the correction with immediate results. In those cases
the hammers without dampers were not bobbling which clued me in to the
problem.
I don't know what the problem is in this particular case but the original
posting indicated that the regulation had already been refined. Checking
the damper spring tension was a suggestion not a diagnosis as not having a
chance to examine the piano more carefully leaves me somewhat in the dark.
I would certainly check that before engaging in dismantling and repining all
the flanges.
David Love
www.davidlovepianos.com
-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Scott Helms, RPT
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:34 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] double-striking hammers on Chinese uprights
David -
Repinning flanges to address bobbling in uprights works for the same
reason that it does in grands. If the hammers are pinned too loose, there
is too much energy in the hammer assembly during aftertouch and it will
rebound and double-strike. Note that this typically happens on a blow that
isn't strong enough to put the hammer into check, but that IS strong
enough to make the hammer return to the string a second time.
When you say excessive damper spring tension is the culprit for "exactly
the reasons [I] mention", do you mean that it discourages the player from
following through the keystroke? If so, how does that explain bobbling in
the treble hammers that don't have dampers? And, wouldn't that be a player
technique/education issue and not a piano malfunction issue?
Scott
------
Scott A. Helms, Registered Piano Technician
480-818-3871
www.helmsmusic.net
> Why would repining flanges help with double striking?
>
> As I mentioned earlier, and as was discussed in a previous thread, excess
> tension in the damper springs is a common culprit for double striking
> (especially in some new pianos) for exactly the reasons you mention below.
>
>
> David Love
> www.davidlovepianos.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Scott Helms, RPT
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 8:56 PM
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] double-striking hammers on chinese uprights
>
> I'm surprised that repinning the flanges didn't help - that always seems
> to do the trick for me. Have you tried reducing the blow distance to get
> more aftertouch? This was actually a thread on this list about a year ago,
> and some suggested that damper springs that are too strong could cause
> bobbling, although I've never been able to figure out why that would be
> the case (unless it just discourages the player from following through the
> entire keystroke) ...
>
> ------
> Scott A. Helms, Registered Piano Technician
> 480-818-3871
> www.helmsmusic.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: jim at moypiano.com
To: ben at benspianotuning.com; pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:51:03 -0600
Subject: Re: [pianotech] PACE lessons printed in previous Journals?
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:01 AM, <ben at benspianotuning.com> wrote:
> I seem to recall hearing that the complete PACE lessons were reprinted in the Journal ...
> ... does anyone have a recollection of which exact issues they were reprinted in?
When I was studying up for the exams, I tracked them all down. I
posted this to examprep some time back, I think. This really ought to
be on some sort of PTG community wiki, as the search facility on the
Journal CDs is useful, but somewhat scatter-shot.
See below.
Jim
----
My own directory structure on my computer, which follows the CD
structure below the date:
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1993sep.pdf
Technical Lesson #1 - Flange Rebushing
Tuning Lesson #1 - Unison Tuning
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1993oct.pdf
Technical Lesson #2 - Key Bushing Field Repair
Tuning Lesson #2 - Tuning Hammer Sensitivity
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1993nov.pdf
Technical Lesson #3 - Vertical Shank Replacement
Tuning Lesson #3 - String Settling
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1993dec.pdf
Technical Lesson #4 - String Replacement With Hitch Pin Loop
Tuning Lesson #4 - Identifying Partials
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994jan.pdf
Technical Lesson #5 - String Splicing
Tuning Lesson #5 - Focusing On Beats
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994feb.pdf
Technical Lesson #6 - Hammer Filing
Tuning Lesson #6 - Setting Pitch
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994mar.pdf
Technical Lesson #7 - Hammer Filing, Part II
Tuning Lesson #7 - Tuning 2:1 Octaves
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994apr.pdf
Technical Lesson #8 - Vertical Regulation - Part 1, Alignment
Tuning Lesson #8 - Tuning 4:2 Octaves
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994may.pdf
Technical Lesson #9 - Vertical Regulation - Part 2, Alignment
Tuning Lesson #9 - Tuning 6:3 Octaves
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994jun.pdf
Technical Lesson #10 - Vertical Regulation, Choosing Hammer
Blow & Key Dip Settings
Tuning Lesson #10 - Tuning Just Fifths and Fourths -
Part 1, The Basic Skills
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994jul.pdf
Technical Lesson #11 - Vertical Regulation, Adjusting
Lost Motion & Leveling Keys
Tuning Lesson #11 - Tuning Just Fifths and Fourths -
Part 2, The Diatonic Comma
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994aug.pdf
Technical Lesson #12 - Vertical Regulation, Adjusting Key Dip
Tuning Lesson #12 - Counting Beats
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994sep.pdf
Technical Lesson #13 - Vertical Regulation, Setting Let-Off
Tuning Lesson #13 - Tuning Just Fifths & Fourths - Part 3,
A Circle of Fiths Well Temperament
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994oct.pdf
Technical Lesson #14 - Vertical Regulation, Adjusting Checking
Distance and Setting Sharp Key Dip By The Equal Checking Method
Tuning Lesson #14 - Tuning 4:1 Double Octaves
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994nov.pdf
Technical Lesson #15 - Vertical Regulation, Dampers :
Alignment and Regulation of Pedal Lift
Tuning Lesson #15 - The Baldassin-Sanderson Temperament
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994dec.pdf
Technical Lesson #16 - Vertical Regulation, Damper Spoon Adjustment
Tuning Lesson #16 - The Baldassin-Sanderson Temperament: Part 2,
Dividing the F3-F4 Octave Into Six Equal Parts
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1995jan.pdf
Technical Lesson #17 - Bridle Wire & Pedal Adjustments
Tuning Lesson #17 - The Baldassin-Sanderson Temperament: Part 3,
Completing the F3-F4 Temperament
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1995feb.pdf
Technical Lesson #18 - Vertical Troubleshooting -
Diagnosing the Bobbling Hammer
Tuning Lesson #18 - Parallel Interval Tests
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1995mar.pdf
Technical Lesson #19 - Vertical Troubleshooting -
Repairing the Sticking Key
Tuning Lesson #19 - Tuning 8:4 and 10:5 Octaves in the Low Bass
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1995may.pdf
Technical Lesson #20 - Grand Regulation - Part 1: Keyframe Bedding
Tuning Lesson #20 - Refining the Midrange with Contiguous
Interval and P5/P4 Comparison Tests
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1995jun.pdf
Technical Lesson #21 - Grand Regulation - Part 2:
Positioning the Keyframe
Tuning Lesson #21 - Treble: Part 1 - The M3-M10-M17 Test
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1995jul.pdf
Technical Lesson #22 - Grand Regulation - Part 3: Hammer
Travel, Angle and Spacing
Tuning Lesson #22 - Treble: Part 2 - Checks and Balances
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1995aug.pdf
Technical Lesson #23 - Grand Regulation - Part 4:
Spacing, Squaring & Leveling
Tuning Lesson #23 - Single Octave Tuning in the High Treble
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1995sep.pdf
Technical Lesson #24 - Grand Regulation - Part 5: Jack Centering,
Wippen Spacing & Backcheck Alignment
Tuning Lesson #24 - Tuning Contiguous Thirds to Start a Temperament
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1995oct.pdf
Technical Lesson #25 - Grand Regulation - Part 6: Choosing
Hammer Blow & Key Dip Settings for Proper Aftertouch
Tuning Lesson #25 - Refining the Bass
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1995nov.pdf
Technical Lesson #26 - Grand Regulation - Part 7: Setting White Key Dip
Tuning Lesson #26 - Prototype Master Tuning Session
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1995dec.pdf
Technical Lesson #27 - Grand Regulation - Part 8: The
Relationship Between Let-Off & Drop
PTG\Journal\1996-1999\Papers\1996jan.pdf
Technical Lesson #28 - Grand Regulation - Part 9: Adjusting
Jack Position, Repetition Lever Height, Let-off & Drop
PTG\Journal\1996-1999\Papers\1996feb.pdf
Technical Lesson #29 - Grand Regulation - Part 10:
Adjusting Hammer Blow Distance & Sharp Key Dip
PTG\Journal\1996-1999\Papers\1996mar.pdf
Technical Lesson #29(2) - Grand Regulation - Part 11:
Adjusting Backcheck Angle & Checking Distance
PTG\Journal\1996-1999\Papers\1996apr.pdf
Technical Lesson #30 - Grand Regulation - Part 12:
Adjusting Repetition Springs
PTG\Journal\1996-1999\Papers\1996may.pdf
Technical Lesson #32 - Grand Regulation - Part 13:
Overview of the Grand Damper System & Correction of Fluggish Dampers
PTG\Journal\1996-1999\Papers\1996jun.pdf
Technical Lesson #33 - Grand Regulation - Part 14:
Adjusting Grand Dampers for Even Lift from the Key & Pedal
PTG\Journal\1996-1999\Papers\1996jul.pdf
Technical Lesson #34 - Grand Regulation - Part 15:
Adjusting the Grand Damper Stop Rail & Sustain Pedal
PTG\Journal\1996-1999\Papers\1996aug.pdf
Technical Lesson #35 - Grand Regulation - Part 16:
Adjustment of the Shift Pedal, Sostenuto, Hammer Rail & Key Stop Rail
----
Learning to Pass the PTG Tuning Exam
1. PTG\Journal\1984-1991\Papers\1989nov.pdf Introduction
2. PTG\Journal\1984-1991\Papers\1989dec.pdf Structure, Scoring
3. PTG\Journal\1984-1991\Papers\1990jan.pdf Pitch
4. PTG\Journal\1984-1991\Papers\1990mar.pdf Midrange
5. PTG\Journal\1984-1991\Papers\1990may.pdf Bass
6. PTG\Journal\1984-1991\Papers\1990jun.pdf Treble
7. PTG\Journal\1984-1991\Papers\1990jul.pdf High Treble
8. PTG\Journal\1984-1991\Papers\1990aug.pdf Stability
9. PTG\Journal\1984-1991\Papers\1990sep.pdf Unisons
Sumrell-Stebbins Contiguous 3rds technique
PTG\Journal\1992-1995\Papers\1994dec.pdf
"Picasso" tuners, theoretical beat rates and reality:
PTG\Journal\1984-1991\Papers\1988apr.pdf
David Stanwood & Touchweight
PTG\Journal\1984-1991\Papers\1990oct.pdf
PTG\Journal\1984-1991\Papers\1990nov.pdf
Renner Back Action Installation
PTG\Journal\2000-2002\PTG\Papers\2001aug.pdf
Ed Sutton series on "Ear Training"
PTG\Journal\1996-1999\Papers\1999jul.pdf "Part 1"
PTG\Journal\1996-1999\Papers\1999aug.pdf "The Overtone Series"
PTG\Journal\1996-1999\Papers\1999sep.pdf "Hearing Inside the Brain"
PTG\Journal\1996-1999\Papers\1999oct.pdf "Hear More Beats Better"
Owen Jorgensen
"For instructions on how to tune the historical temperaments
discussed in this series, the reader is referred to the
following issues of the Piano Technicians Journal:
December 2001, pages 18-22.
July 1996, pages 30, 31.
February 1996, pages 28, 29.
December 1994, pages 40-45."
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