David L And David I. Good post D.L. David I..... Yes they have a cushion. These new Weickert felt hammers are quite different than any previous Ronsen product because of the amazing felt. Also keep in mind that this also the final version of the felt that has been refined over two years. So you haven't heard anything like this yet. I do believe that there is even more to be had later by some judicious needling of the cushion area and the cup line but only after some break in period. I have sustain,dynamics,clarity and acoustic power with out harshness so why needle? I would call these hammers a hybrid or crossover but they didn't cross the line into the range of having to needle, needle. David I., Please come and hear it your close enough. Its very concerto-ish sounding right up to note 88 with no stiffeners added. It is sweet and warm at PP & don't translate that as muddy or dark. This is a very clear and present sound. David I. There is nothing wrong with more modestly densified hammers where you can shift certain felt stiffness around to achieve what you like. My most common experience is that they rebound to an unpleasant level. Way too often, as David L. said, the over needling can render them less than optimal. I often go thru the cushion building process and find very little change. Even after moving up higher on the shoulders I still find I have the nasty percussive sound and end up doing some fairly aggressive crown voicing to get any change. What my ears like and my experience of hammer construction tell me is that the more densified hammers have a very hard mass of felt over the under felt which extends quite high up toward the crown and as long as that is too stiff the tone stays to percussive. The Weickert felt has a more uniform density thru out. A felt powerful non-linear spring With Ronsen hammers I have a predictable tone and procedure with stability. Tone is tone, how you get it doesn't matter. How you get stability does. Dale -----Original Message----- From: David Love <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 9:28 pm Subject: Re: [pianotech] Follow up report on BB Mason and Weickert felt Let's not confuse tension with stiffness of the felt. Ronsen's have plenty f tension but the stiffness may be lacking for some applications (and it epends on which felt and the pressing). Some hard pressed hammers have ery little tension most of it having been cooked out of them like throwing our nice wool sweater into the hot drier. Of course whether the hammer ounds right depends on a number of factors including the match between ammer and piano and, of course, consumer taste. It depends on what you're fter. I like Renners on the right piano and can't stand them on the wrong iano. Same is true with, say, Ronsen Bacon felt hammers. Personally I ave a lower tolerance for a hammer that is too hard than for one that is oo soft. Overly soft hammers which are typically cold pressed, almost lways respond well to careful use of hardeners/densifiers/stiffeners, owever you like to call them. Overly hard hammers often do not respond ell to needling when the amount of needling required is excessive and on op of it they may be unstable. A hammer which is modestly too hard can be ine to work with and stable. A good example of the difference is those old amaha hammers used on the production pianos and the new hammers used on the F or even the C7 pianos. Those older hammers simply don't respond to eedling the same way the newer ones do even though the newer ones are still uite firm. So it also depends on the overall quality. Renner hammers vary o much that it's hard to lump them into one category. It's like saying, "I ike (or don't like) jazz". There are too many different iterations and tyles to not be more specific. Some of Renners hammers are ridiculously ard and some are firm but nice to work with. Same with Abel. We do have a ot of choices now, which is nice, but also a lot of uncertainty about just hat you're going to get when you order something using only the anufacturer as your criteria. Anyway, attend my seminar next year (date undetermined) on choosing eplacement hammers. All the criteria and methods needed to make a sound ecision about what to use will be covered--time allowing. David Love ww.davidlovepianos.com ----Original Message----- rom: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf f David Ilvedson ent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:08 PM o: pianotech at ptg.org ubject: Re: [pianotech] Follow up report on BB Mason and Weickert felt Hi David, I'm seeing a lot of Ronsen hammers these days and I'm not sure I'm that mpressed...I am impressed with some Renner hammers and others and have to onder if something is missing when you don't build that tension into the ammer. The necessity of opening the shoulders to make a cushion and the olidity of the low shoulders...I'm just posing some questions for iscussion since the Ronsen seems to get so much press from those who use t... David Ilvedson, RPT acifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- rom: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> o: pianotech at ptg.org eceived: 12/15/2009 9:00:16 PM ubject: Re: [pianotech] Follow up report on BB Mason and Weickert felt In know you're not asking me but my experience has been that, no they don't need any more cushion. The shoulders already have enough give--sometimes too much. If anything they need a more solid footing below the shoulder so that the flexible shoulder has something to spring against. Thus the periodic need to strengthen the lower part of the hammer on some sets. >David Love www.davidlovepianos.com >-----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On ehalf Of David Ilvedson Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:40 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Follow up report on BB Mason and Weickert felt >I find it interesting that you didn't need to do any shoulder needling. The "cushion" is there already? You immediately had projection...tone above the strings? >David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 >----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: erwinspiano at aol.com To: pianotech at ptg.org Received: 12/15/2009 8:31:08 PM Subject: [pianotech] Follow up report on BB Mason and Weickert felt >> As some may recall I reporting that we were doing a modest face lift to a 1976 >Mason Hamlin BB. The dreaded Aeolian years. > We applied two new top sections of bridge cap and rehabbed the pins in he rest of >the bridge. We replaced Shanks and installed the New Ronsen Weicker felted >>hammers. The piano is done and the tonal results are very pleasing. The teacher in >charge of getting it done is very talented young man with good repertoire and he >was greatly impressed with the dynamics power and clarity. > The final voicing protocol other than careful strike weight prep and filing was >embarrassingly easy for the result. In the bass I added some 12 to 1 lac acetone to >the mono-chords only for a bit more initial boost and four drops on the strike point >from note 9 thru 21. The tenor was three drops on the top of each up to f-3 and >nada, zip, nothing from there to the top. Not exazctly filling the hammer with lacquer >eh? No needling at all. Impossible? > I could not ask for better result and with minimul efforts. I've always considered >that the Mason Piano needed a fairly stiff hammer and these were dense for sure >but needles are no problem but presently it needs nothing. After some play in time >I'll post back with a further review. I've just recieved another identical set & they >have the same density, shape and weight as the first set. > Kudos to our hammer head ally...Ray. > It occurs to me that some may weary of the hammer felt news, but then that's >what the list is for and also what the delete button is for. > I hope no one is snoring > You have my open invitation If you are in the area to stop by and enjoy the sound >for your self! > Kindest regards > Dale Erwin >>WWW.Erwinspiano.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20091216/7192b565/attachment-0001.htm>
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