Dear List,
Interesting/valid statements from Paul Bruesch and Ron N. in regard to Boston Conservatory Address.
Yes, music input in most schools is still unfortunately considered frosting on the cake and when funds
are limited often eliminated from the program. But at www.affinityarts.com.br children from 2 years
on up have music classes everyday and can opt for daily lessons on violin and/or piano when they are
ready and beg for it. Amazing how these children, because the arts are the core of the curriculum, make extraordinary progress in all areas and virtually love school/learning. I cite this example not to boast of our
family-run-private school (in its 12th year with a staff including professional musicians/music educators),
but to encourage others that such a school can and does exist.
Jacques/Brasília
From: pianotech-request at ptg.org
Subject: pianotech Digest, Vol 5, Issue 91
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 21:48:34 -0800
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--Anexo de Mensagem Encaminhado--
From: rnossaman at cox.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 22:07:41 -0600
Subject: Re: [pianotech] OT- Welcome address to Boston Conservatory Freshmen
> It occurred to me a few years ago, while contemplating the state of
> primary education these days with its extreme emphasis on math and
> reading to the detriment and near exclusion of the arts and humanities,
> that "Arts (and) Humanities" are what make us "Human", and just how
> critical and crucial is that? (Very, IMO!)
>
> Paul Bruesch
Considering the level at which people read, write, spell,
punctuate, and handle math in any form, that's scary.
Still appreciative of sunsets,
Ron N
--Anexo de Mensagem Encaminhado--
From: dahechler at att.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 22:24:15 -0600
Subject: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
So you get to a piano that is extremely flat, say one full note or more,
and you tune A4 with a tuning fork.
How do you find the major third or any other note, other than an octave?
I'm trying to understand how you would to a piano that flat without an ETD.
Duaine
--
Duaine Hechler
Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ
Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding
Reed Organ Society Member
Florissant, MO 63034
(314) 838-5587
dahechler at att.net
www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
--
Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years
--Anexo de Mensagem Encaminhado--
From: rnossaman at cox.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 22:45:26 -0600
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
> So you get to a piano that is extremely flat, say one full note or more,
> and you tune A4 with a tuning fork.
>
> How do you find the major third or any other note, other than an octave?
>
> I'm trying to understand how you would to a piano that flat without an ETD.
>
> Duaine
By listening, just like if the piano was close to pitch, only
with a preliminary pulling the string up an approximate
anticipated amount (determined when you set the A) *WHILE*
listening. How do you chip a piano up to pitch after
restringing with an ETD when nothing is a predictable degree low?
Ron N
--Anexo de Mensagem Encaminhado--
From: dahechler at att.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 22:47:58 -0600
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
Ron Nossaman wrote:
>
>> So you get to a piano that is extremely flat, say one full note or more,
>> and you tune A4 with a tuning fork.
>>
>> How do you find the major third or any other note, other than an octave?
>>
>> I'm trying to understand how you would to a piano that flat without
>> an ETD.
>>
>> Duaine
>
>
> By listening, just like if the piano was close to pitch, only with a
> preliminary pulling the string up an approximate anticipated amount
> (determined when you set the A) *WHILE* listening. How do you chip a
> piano up to pitch after restringing with an ETD when nothing is a
> predictable degree low?
> Ron N
First, I've never had the chance to do a total restringing. However,
that's easy just set the ETD on the note you want to tune and pull it up
until it starts to register.
Duaine
--
Duaine Hechler
Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ
Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding
Reed Organ Society Member
Florissant, MO 63034
(314) 838-5587
dahechler at att.net
www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
--
Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years
--Anexo de Mensagem Encaminhado--
From: dahechler at att.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 22:54:33 -0600
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
Ron Nossaman wrote:
>
>> So you get to a piano that is extremely flat, say one full note or more,
>> and you tune A4 with a tuning fork.
>>
>> How do you find the major third or any other note, other than an octave?
>>
>> I'm trying to understand how you would to a piano that flat without
>> an ETD.
>>
>> Duaine
>
>
> By listening, just like if the piano was close to pitch, only with a
> preliminary pulling the string up an approximate anticipated amount
> (determined when you set the A) *WHILE* listening. How do you chip a
> piano up to pitch after restringing with an ETD when nothing is a
> predictable degree low?
> Ron N
BUT, how do you really no - where - a third is ? (Where is a reference
point, like using a pitch fork for that third)
--
Duaine Hechler
Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ
Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding
Reed Organ Society Member
Florissant, MO 63034
(314) 838-5587
dahechler at att.net
www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
--
Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years
--Anexo de Mensagem Encaminhado--
From: dave at davispiano.com
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 05:05:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
I pick a song, like "twinkle twinkle little star". Set A4, then the octave below, then up a 5th, etc. You can pick different songs to get you in the ballpark.
------Original Message------
From: Duaine & Laura Hechler
Sender: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org
To: pianotech at ptg.org
ReplyTo: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
Sent: Mar 7, 2009 8:54 PM
Ron Nossaman wrote:
>
>> So you get to a piano that is extremely flat, say one full note or more,
>> and you tune A4 with a tuning fork.
>>
>> How do you find the major third or any other note, other than an octave?
>>
>> I'm trying to understand how you would to a piano that flat without
>> an ETD.
>>
>> Duaine
>
>
> By listening, just like if the piano was close to pitch, only with a
> preliminary pulling the string up an approximate anticipated amount
> (determined when you set the A) *WHILE* listening. How do you chip a
> piano up to pitch after restringing with an ETD when nothing is a
> predictable degree low?
> Ron N
BUT, how do you really no - where - a third is ? (Where is a reference
point, like using a pitch fork for that third)
--
Duaine Hechler
Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ
Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding
Reed Organ Society Member
Florissant, MO 63034
(314) 838-5587
dahechler at att.net
www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
--
Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years
Best regards,
Dave Davis
Davis Piano Service
425-226-0102
--Anexo de Mensagem Encaminhado--
From: dahechler at att.net
To: dave at davispiano.com; pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 23:15:10 -0600
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
Dave Davis wrote:
> I pick a song, like "twinkle twinkle little star". Set A4, then the octave below, then up a 5th, etc. You can pick different songs to get you in the ballpark.
>
I don't want to be in the "ballpark" - I want - the - note.
Duaine
--Anexo de Mensagem Encaminhado--
From: dahechler at att.net
To: dave at davispiano.com; pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 23:17:14 -0600
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
Dave Davis wrote:
> I pick a song, like "twinkle twinkle little star". Set A4, then the octave below, then up a 5th, etc. You can pick different songs to get you in the ballpark.
Plus assuming you have no sense of what a 5th sounds like - how do you
go - up - a 5th ?
--Anexo de Mensagem Encaminhado--
From: dahechler at att.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 23:28:39 -0600
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
Maybe, I need to get to basics for this question.
I am a barbershop singer, so I have a sense of what a 3rd, 5th, m7th,
octave sounds like.
Now, assume for the sake of this question, a non musical person that has
absolutely no other training and talent, wants to be a piano tuner.
Without the aid of a ETD and has no concept of note relations (3rds,
5ths, etc), how is he expected to learn aural tuning ? And learn it well
enough to pass the tests ?
I don't see any other choice for this person to use an ETD - and - never
be able to pass the test - so - how does he get to be an RPT?
Duaine
--
Duaine Hechler
Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ
Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding
Reed Organ Society Member
Florissant, MO 63034
(314) 838-5587
dahechler at att.net
www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
--
Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years
--Anexo de Mensagem Encaminhado--
From: dave at davispiano.com
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 21:40:32 -0800
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
My apologies. I appreciate that you are trying to find a way to tune aurally. Aural tuning isn't my strong point, so I look for ways to make it less of a dirge. I usually can not pull intervals out of thin air. Finding songs that give me "ballpark" intervals is one of the ways I deal with my aural tuning inadequacies. When I am in the "ballpark" I use the traditional methods of aural tuning. There are plenty of good references to good aural tuning strategies, so I won't go into them.
I'm not sure how to describe a fifth to you, other than, if you are familiar with the song "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star", the interval (or difference in notes) between the first "Twinkle" and the second "Twinkle" is a fifth. For instance tune A4 to your tuning fork or pitch source, then tune the octave below (A3) and use that as the first note, "Twinkle". D4 will be the second "Twinkle". E4 will be "little".and so on. Try those 4 notes and if you like my crazy technique I will give you some other songs to try to fill in some other notes.
Best regards,
Dave Davis
From: Duaine & Laura Hechler <dahechler at att.net>
To: dave at davispiano.com; pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2009 9:17:14 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
Dave Davis wrote:
> I pick a song, like "twinkle twinkle little star". Set A4, then the octave below, then up a 5th, etc. You can pick different songs to get you in the ballpark.
Plus assuming you have no sense of what a 5th sounds like - how do you
go - up - a 5th ?
--Anexo de Mensagem Encaminhado--
From: dave at davispiano.com
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 21:48:31 -0800
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
Now I understand what you are asking. Your original question asked how I (or anyone else) do it.
I have recently encountered this situation with my brother. He has been around music all his life but doesn't know any intervals (except maybe a half or whole step) He does excellent shop work for me, and has an interest in tuning. The way he is learning is with a mentor who teaches him what intervals are, how to listen to the beats, what a beatless unison sounds like, etc.
Best regards,
Dave Davis
From: Duaine & Laura Hechler <dahechler at att.net>
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2009 9:28:39 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aural tuning question
Maybe, I need to get to basics for this question.
I am a barbershop singer, so I have a sense of what a 3rd, 5th, m7th,
octave sounds like.
Now, assume for the sake of this question, a non musical person that has
absolutely no other training and talent, wants to be a piano tuner.
Without the aid of a ETD and has no concept of note relations (3rds,
5ths, etc), how is he expected to learn aural tuning ? And learn it well
enough to pass the tests ?
I don't see any other choice for this person to use an ETD - and - never
be able to pass the test -
so - how does he get to be an RPT?
Duaine
--
Duaine Hechler
Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ
Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding
Reed Organ Society Member
Florissant, MO 63034
(314) 838-5587
dahechler at att.net
www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
--
Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years
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