Ed - You might try to isolate the problem to see whether the hammers need attention (voicing) or if the lack of sustain is due to the string/bridge/bearing structure. To do this, pluck the strings w/ your finger and listening to the length of sustain, then listen again but have the hammer strike the string. If you notice the string sustains more w/ the pluck than the hammer, the hammer is the culprit. If both sound similar, its probably the structure. I'd then check to see if there is an issue w/ the bearing using a string threaded (somehow) adjacent to the offending notes to detect (hopefully) some amount of deflection on the bridge. Dave Hulbert, RPT 414.315.7763 dave at hulbertpiano.com www.hulbertpiano.com --- On Sat, 3/21/09, pianotech-request at ptg.org <pianotech-request at ptg.org> wrote: From: pianotech-request at ptg.org <pianotech-request at ptg.org> Subject: pianotech Digest, Vol 5, Issue 301 To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 12:19 PM Send pianotech mailing list submissions to pianotech at ptg.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech_ptg.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pianotech-request at ptg.org You can reach the person managing the list at pianotech-owner at ptg.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pianotech digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Rot doctor Epoxy on bridge cap (PAULREVENKOJONES at aol.com) 2. Re: Perfect Pitch / Children (David Boyce) 3. sustain (Ed Carwithen) 4. (Gerald Groot) 5. Re: squeaking leather key bushings (Ryan Sowers) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:53:45 EDT From: PAULREVENKOJONES at aol.com Subject: Re: [pianotech] Rot doctor Epoxy on bridge cap To: pianotech at ptg.org Message-ID: <bd2.3c7079fe.36f67599 at aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks, Dale. Peace! Paul In a message dated 3/21/2009 11:12:39 A.M. Central Daylight Time, erwinspiano at aol.com writes: _WWW.RotDoctor.com_ (http://www.rotdoctor.com/) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090321/f9a191f3/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:00:48 -0000 From: "David Boyce" <David at piano.plus.com> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Perfect Pitch / Children To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Message-ID: <A5BC3528225648ECB84AC83673EC917D at DavidPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, absolutely. it goes back to defining the terms. That's where I came in at! David. >It goes back to defining the terms. When I sent my tuning videos into Randy Potter for critique, one of the things he would always send back to me was for me to hit the >key a little harder, with an "mf" blow. Now, we all know that "mf" means "moderately loud". But if I were to show you guys the videos, you would see that I was hitting >the key "fortissimo". I would just scratch my head on that one. But, what's loud to me, may not be loud to you. Or what is fast to you, may not be to me, etc. >The line of work we are in is very subjective. Not just this business, but music in general. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090321/dc6c5c1f/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:09:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ed Carwithen <edwcarw at yahoo.com> Subject: [pianotech] sustain To: Piano Tech List <pianotech at ptg.org> Message-ID: <478883.40256.qm at web35806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have a problem with a new Kawai console piano. Maybe someone can help me diagnose the situation. ? I am the only tech to have worked on this piano which is two years old.? The A6 A#6 notes have almost no sustain.? The owner did not notice this problem until just recently, and I did not notice this previously, so I have to assume this is something that has developed rather than inherent from the beginning. ? These notes are above the dampers so that isn't part of the problem.?? The notes below the A seem fine.? The notes above them seem fine.? There seems to be nothing inhibiting the strings themselves.? I can't see anything on the strings, or touching the strings to dampen the sound.? I tapped the strings to the bridge to be sure that the termination points were solid.? I put some solution on the hammers to harden them thinking that maybe the hammer felt might be too soft.? That didn't make any difference.? I then voiced with needles, and it seems to have made some minor improvement, but not enough.? ? It seems that two things would affect the sustain; something inhibiting the string resonance, or the hammer voicing.? I have tried to address both of these and haven't managed to solve it.? ? Any Ideas???? ? Ed Carwithen John Day. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090321/a5c6d5c8/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:15:44 -0400 From: "Gerald Groot" <tunerboy3 at comcast.net> Subject: Re: [pianotech] sustain To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Message-ID: <00d201c9aa48$ac4aa4b0$04dfee10$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Have you checked the bridge pins themselves? Are they in solid? Make sure they are on the correct angle with the others pins. Also, make sure there is no wood touching the strings after they leave the bridges. Sometimes, we need to give them a little extra notch for more clearance. For the heck of it, tighten all of the sounding board screws while you're at it. A few ideas anyway. From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ed Carwithen Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:10 PM To: Piano Tech List Subject: [pianotech] sustain I have a problem with a new Kawai console piano. Maybe someone can help me diagnose the situation. I am the only tech to have worked on this piano which is two years old. The A6 A#6 notes have almost no sustain. The owner did not notice this problem until just recently, and I did not notice this previously, so I have to assume this is something that has developed rather than inherent from the beginning. These notes are above the dampers so that isn't part of the problem. The notes below the A seem fine. The notes above them seem fine. There seems to be nothing inhibiting the strings themselves. I can't see anything on the strings, or touching the strings to dampen the sound. I tapped the strings to the bridge to be sure that the termination points were solid. I put some solution on the hammers to harden them thinking that maybe the hammer felt might be too soft. That didn't make any difference. I then voiced with needles, and it seems to have made some minor improvement, but not enough. It seems that two things would affect the sustain; something inhibiting the string resonance, or the hammer voicing. I have tried to address both of these and haven't managed to solve it. Any Ideas???? Ed Carwithen John Day. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090321/33fa1b27/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:19:36 -0700 From: Ryan Sowers <tunerryan at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [pianotech] squeaking leather key bushings To: dave at davispiano.com, pianotech at ptg.org Message-ID: <a19ce39f0903211019q40448e3apa47dd0ca0bdb6a47 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I too love the small - its like anise or licorice. I put a little dab behind my ear and I have found that the tips from my lady clients have gone up substantially. [?] On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Dave Davis <dave at davispiano.com> wrote: > Steve Brady introduced me to Ballistol a couple of years ago. Even though I > respect him highly as a technician, I have sparingly used it here & there > and have been impressed with it (plus it smells good!). I have added it to > the magic liquids in my tool kit. > > I have heard that Bosendorfer recommends Ballistol to lube leather > keybushings, but have not confirmed it. > > Best regards, > Dave Davis > Davis Piano Service > 425-226-0102 > > ------------------------------ > *From*: Ryan Sowers > *Date*: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:40:43 -0700 > *To*: <pianotech at ptg.org> > *Subject*: Re: [pianotech] squeaking leather key bushings > I have found Ballistol to be great stuff for keybushings. On grands I > remove the key upstop rail and tip the action up on end and use a small > artist brush to apply a thin coating to the pins. It seems to work as good > as anything - and I've tried most of whats out there. I like that its a > fairly "natural" product. If I have the keys out of the piano I put it on a > small rag and just wipe the keypins. That way you don't put on too much. > > On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 5:40 AM, John Ross <jrpiano at win.eastlink.ca>wrote: > >> *Ballistol, from Mother Goose Tools should work for leather.* >> *John Ross* >> *Windsor, Nova Scotia* >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Gregor _ <karlkaputt at hotmail.com> >> *To:* pianotech at ptg.org >> *Sent:* Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:24 AM >> *Subject:* [pianotech] squeaking leather key bushings >> >> List, >> >> what would you use to eliminate the squeaking of old leather key bushings? >> I assume nothing that is liquid or greasy? What?s about talkum powder or >> teflon powder? And what?s about Protec CLP (which is liquid)? >> >> A customer called me today and complained about squeaking. I tuned her >> piano and eliminated some squeaking 6 weeks ago, but I can?t remember the >> origin of that squeaking nor what I did to fix it. Given that it was a key >> squeaking and not an action squeaking I assume that I applied some talkum >> powder to the leather. If so, it seems that this is not a long lasting >> solution for that problem. What would be better in the long run? >> >> Maybe that I am completely wrong and that the squeaking had another >> source, e.g. the center of the jack or whatever. >> >> Gregor >> >> ------------------------------ >> Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Check >> it out! <http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx> >> >> > > > -- > Ryan Sowers, RPT > Puget Sound Chapter > Olympia, WA > www.pianova.net > -- Ryan Sowers, RPT Puget Sound Chapter Olympia, WA www.pianova.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090321/c33e57df/attachment.html> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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