Is Steinway the only keybed that is planed for a curve? That isn't this upward warp you are seeing...? I have to admit I have not noticed this...but it seems it would certainly show in the regulation... David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "William Truitt" <surfdog at metrocast.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Received: 11/26/2009 11:23:03 AM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Lyre Damage >Let me re-ask my question again, Ron. To what other possible causal agents >could you possibly attribute the upward distortion of the keybed that we so >often see? >What would qualify as "reasonable evidence" of a direct causal relationship >between setting the piano down on the lyre and keybed warpage? Both Al and >I have given instances of observation soon enough after such a move that any >other cause is unlikely, and the lyre is the most obvious suspect. Neither >of us are trying to make the leap of saying that all instances of warped >keybeds are caused by setting the piano on the lyre, only that we have a >particular instance where doing so is the only reasonable suspect. As to >how many instances are caused by setting the piano on the lyre, you and I >share essentially the same incomplete knowledge, regardless of our position. >We rely on anecdotal information and hopefully good logic, because we don't >have much else to go on. >David, I don't doubt that a great many pianos are moved by setting the piano >on the lyre, and no harm comes of it. Lots of movers do it that way with no >ill effects (at least most of the time). A Steinway is a substantially >built piano with a thick keybed. But there are plenty of Crappendorfer >pianos out there where the keybed is as insubstantial as the rest of the >piano, and as cheaply made. And less tolerant of insult than the better >made instruments. >As for the side stresses on the treble leg, fair enough. Perhaps one could >even say it is a question of choose your poison, but you have to choose one >because you have to move the piano. One way to lessen that stress is to >make sure that you spin the caster wheel on that leg so that the wheel is >facing outward and away from the rim. Otherwise, at a certain point in >lowering the piano down at the bass end, the wheel will spin on its own to >achieve that position, suddenly and with a little jolt, adding more stress >than needs to be there. >That said, I have never seen a broken treble leg from setting the piano on >its side. I have seen plenty of broken lyres, though. The treble leg >usually breaks before that, when I drag the piano across the shag carpeting >sideways without taking any weight off the legs :-0 >For me, it is not hard to draw the following conclusion: IF it is true that >some instances of keybed warpage exist due to setting the piano on the lyre, >whether caused by poor and rough technique, the insubstantiality of the >keybed, or both; AND IF it is true that simple, quick, easy, and safe >methods exist that remove the need to set the piano on the lyre when moving >and risk such damage, THEN wouldn't it be true that said methods would be a >better and safer choice for moving a piano? (Logic 101 - if A is true, and B >is true, it follows that C must be true) >If one were so inclined, it probably would not be too difficult to set up a >long straight edge with a dial guage or digital caliper to take measurements >of deflection, both temporary or permanent, on a number of pianos, just to >see how much the keybed actually changes when doing a move. >Will > >-----Original Message----- >From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf >Of Ron Nossaman >Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 12:52 PM >To: pianotech at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [pianotech] Lyre Damage >David Love wrote: >> Anecdotal information is difficult to draw conclusions from but I have >> countless pianos come through my shop annually and I follow all of them to >> the customer's home--95% Steinway pianos. They get knocked down with the >> lyre with a heavy blanket underneath to rock the piano over (that's how my >> mover does it) unless it's a Louis or something else where the lyre is >very >> fragile. When I get to the customer's home I just don't find any problems >> with bedding, regulation or anything else associated with the move. >Changes >> in temperature and humidity from my shop environment to their home >> environment can cause some tuning issues but since they pianos are often >> newly strung it's difficult to separate that out. Other than that I just >> don't see problems. >This is exactly my point. Eliminate the one "maybe" instance >in an entire career, the "I believe", the "surely it must", >and the outright "Because I say so" assertions with no >reasonable evidence, and we're left with a whole lot of >(mostly unobserved) cases where no detrimental change took >place as a result of using the lyre. I like the lyre brace >that Andrew posted, and the piano horse, a lot because they >both are intended to make the move easier and protect the lyre >from damage at least to some extent. Of all the traffic on >lists through the years about the horrors of rocking down on >the lyre, I don't recall a single word of concern from anyone >about the considerable side stress put on the treble leg when >the lyre isn't used. Have any of you out there considered the >PSI load on that leg plate connection with the weight of the >piano levering the leg out at that angle? Why doesn't that >concern anyone? >I always wonder why any one of many possible concerns >arbitrarily becomes *the* one to crusade against. >Ron N
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