Actually, it hasn't taken 75 years to turn into verdigris. Many pianos have developed this a lot sooner than that. It has taken place over a period of about 75 years perhaps??? I'm not familiar with what year Steinway started using it and what year they stopped but my "guess" would be in the early 1920's (or sooner) into about the mid 1950's or later?? In that time frame from 1920 to let's say, 1960, only 40 years had passed with thousands upon thousands of sticking action parts. Regardless of that, I've tried using everything you can think of almost, over the years including protek. It does not last and does not always free it up if it is very bad. I've tried using polypropylene, something Jim Reeder recommended to me many years ago. I removed the flanges and center pins and then I brushed and brushed and brushed the flanges birds eyes on both sides continually with polypropylene attempting to brush the crud out of them with it as best I could. I also brushed the whippens and hammer shanks on both sides where the flange engages and whatever else had verdigris on it. I then replaced all of the center pins with new ones. While it did appear to resolve the problem at that time, I discovered over a number of years, that - that too, did not last. The bottom line is this. The verdigris penetrates not only into the felt but into the wood as well. It also discolors it all. Once it is there, it appears to be there forever and will contaminate whatever else you get near it eventually from what I've seen of it and I have seen a lot of it. The only total absolute solution that I've seen that will last permanently, is complete parts replacement. Not just flanges but whippens and whatever else is attached to the parts that were contaminated with verdigris. That is, hammer shanks, flanges, whippens and whippen flanges, etc. I know people that use an electrical "zapper" on the flange pins and claim that it lasts and solves the problem but, after many years, I have seen these same flanges return to sticking again so that leads you back to replacement. Jer Groot RPT From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Terry Farrell Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:06 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Steinway verdigris questions No, no, Wim, that wasn't my point. I know you were recommending replacement, as most would. However you suggested that repining will provide a satisfactory fix for a period of 75 years. IMHO, any fix that lasts 75 years is a permanent fix - and what then is to recommend against a permanent fix? I don't have the experience of repining action parts with verdigris and then observing how long it takes for the action to slow up again - but my general understanding is that the problem would commonly reappear in relatively short order - maybe just a few years - or less - but very likely within a decade or two at most. My point was that my best guess is that repining a verdigris action is NOT a 75 year satisfactory fix. Maybe someone with better experience can chime in..... Terry Farrell On Sep 16, 2009, at 1:55 PM, wimblees at aol.com wrote: It might take 75 years for the verdigris to effect the center pin, but by that time, other problems will most likely have occurred to replace the wippens, and/or the hammer flanges. In actuality, I've always recommended replacing the parts. I think in all my years of rebuilding, I've only repinned one set of verdigris shanks. And that was the first set I ever did. Then I learned my lesson. I just mentioned the repinning as a possibility, not as a recommendation. Wim -----Original Message----- From: Terry Farrell <mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com> To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 5:41 pm Subject: Re: [pianotech] Steinway verdigris questions I dunno Wim, 75 years with no problems, sounds too good to be true. 75 years could be considered "permanent". Care to amend that claim? ;-) Terry Farrell On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:46 PM, wimblees at aol.com wrote: Wim, In my experience the repin repair is also a temporary fix. Been there, failed there. Best wishes, Tom Driscoll Tom I agree with you. The only reason I mention the repinning is for temporary repairs, in cases where the customer doesn't want to pay for new parts. Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT -----Original Message----- From: tom <tomtuner at verizon.net> Julie Verdigris is not mold. It is a chemical reaction between the parafin wax Steinway put in the cloth and the nickel on the center pin. Since this reaction took over 75 years to develop, you can repin, and the problem will come back in 75 years. But, since the parts are that old, it's probably time to replace the worn out parts anyway. Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT = _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090916-0, 09/16/2009 Tested on: 9/17/2009 12:00:55 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20090917/93bfbe28/attachment.htm>
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