Hi Ron, Good to see you back to your old phunny self <G> Joe Goss BSMusEd MMusEd RPT imatunr at srvinet.com www.mothergoosetools.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Nossaman" <rnossaman at cox.net> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [pianotech] [pianotech ]Board & tone styles was hammer strike line > David Love wrote: >>Where the division is between RC&S and hybrid isn’t that clear to me. > > Me either. It's a continuum, not like a magic spot where the clouds part > and the holy sunbeam blesses the board. There's a pretty wide range. I've > said many times that we're shooting at a pretty wide target here, and > almost anything can produce a decent result at least often enough to > appear to be working. If this wasn't the case, none of us would be able to > build acceptable soundboards. > > >>I design ribs to support everything required and rib boards usually at >>6.5% but if I go to 6% does that make it a hybrid since I’m adding a bit >>more compression? > > I don't think so, because the ribs are still stout enough do the job by > themselves. Then there's, as you said, seasonal changes and whether the > piano ends up in Aridzona or Mississlippy. > > >>One thing I do notice about RC&S boards is that they are pretty tolerant >>of these differences. > > Yes they are. They are also more tolerant of bearing loading and strike > point differences, at C-8 as well as through the killer octave. > > >>I’ve set up and heard pianos with rib scales that vary somewhat and the >>tonal differences are minimal. You can obviously overdesign a scale or >>underdesign it but within a range it seems to work without too much >>difference in tonal response. > > Yes, just crowning the ribs, making them stiffer, and giving them a > greater percentage of the load with lower panel compression helps > noticeably. Going full RC&S helps more. > > > >The other aspects such as rib material, >> tapering, cut-off bars, fish, rib arrays I think of as features and may >> or may not be components of any particular method. > > May not, but the bass cutoff and fish make the ribs shorter, therefor > stiffer, before any other changes are made. Almost a freebie. > > >> Clearly all methods are capable of producing good sounding pianos. > > As is continually acknowledged, and eternally defended in spite of the > acknowledgment. > > >> Given other circumstances like unlimited time, money and resources I >> could see experimenting more with the hybrid method. > > I want to try a piece of cheap plywood, like the 5mm mahogany Yamaha used > to use for crates (I don't think the current cardboard would quite get > it). Trying to make a living has gotten in the way of the plan so far. > Years ago, I bent and glued a straight piece of scrap pine to a 20cm wide > piece of that crate material. It's about 80cm long, with the single "rib" > 20mm wide and 18mm tall. No feathering. It's crowned about 12mm in the > middle, and will support over 200lbs without bottoming out. I'm not so > sure we need carbon fiber, titanium, Kevlar, Nomex (except for flame > suits), or most of the exotic approaches we (all) tend to automatically > gravitate toward to make ourselves look high tech and marketable. Getting > past the glitz and spin, and the DEEPLY entrenched mystical nonsense and > denial, the basic requirements aren't apparently that exotic or even > complicated. It just takes some education and work. When someone finally > nails it down and quantifies it in detail, we can look back and see how > close we were, or how very far off, with our chosen methods. > > The automatic "proof is in the pudding" defense isn't informative and no > one learns anything at all from it. This isn't about voicing skills, > market share, tone testimonials, or meticulous craftsman like attention to > infinitely recursive details like becket alignment. It's about basic > principles of function (and yes, I spelled it right this time in spite of > the automatic brain dysfunction that wants to spell it "principals" even > though I know the difference), and trying to discover what the rules > actually are so we can all do better work more dependably. > > I have a quote (unknown source) on the wall that says "When you earnestly > believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, > there's no end to what you can't do". It reminds me that once I'm down to > the molecules looking for a fix, it's already way too late, and it's time > to go back, check premises, and question what I think I know. Sometimes it > works... > Ron N
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