We are obviously both misunderstanding one another. I never said that I do not give and take with my customers. Nor did I say that I will never do something for free. I was speaking strictly of repairs, tunings, pencil calls, things of that nature. Not looking at pianos or condeming them for nothing. I have done what you described in your story many different times with clients over the years with as much success as you have had and more. I could not agree more with your description of earning trust with the client, spending time talking with them, explaining their options and helping them to understand as much as possible. That is all a part of this business. We are in it for their needs as well as our own. By the way, I too felt that you were being a bit hard lined in your own way of thinking. We are reading each other incorrectly not knowing one another at all. Slim margings on my end? Hardly.... Let's try and get to know each other better before we start jumping to conclusions next time. Jer -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Love Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 11:13 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing We were done with this however, some technician's like myself??? I took all your points and I don't happen to agree with what appeared to be a hard line stance that you took. My responses to you were really addressed to those reading the thread who may be debating the points for themselves as to their conduct under such circumstances. My message was that it depends. I think the position you promote is too rigid and misses the point, your own point in fact about what is necessary for success in business. If you go back to my response to the question as it was posed originally you will see that generally I thought this person should be charged. Whether that was going to be a full minimum charge or not was something that the technician needs to decide. I didn't say you should make the trip for free in hopes of getting a new client. Neither would I likely make a trip to a new unknown customer for free. But I might to a regular customer under some circumstances. And I might end up doing it for free even if that wasn't my intention to begin with. I've never had that decision come back to bite me, quite the contrary. If technician's can't make a living I doubt it's that freebie pencil retrieval that put them under water. Businesses throw in complimentary things all the time for the sake of promotion and customer relations. One can argue that by being a hard line, charge for every breath you take, no exceptions type of business person that you do yourself more harm than good. If your profit line is so slim that you need to be sure to charge something substantial for that operation then you probably won't make it anyway. My own business has enough built in added value for the work that I do that I can afford to do someone a favor once in awhile and I so I do. It has come back to me in spades, I believe is the expression. Here's my story (you've had yours). I went to tune a piano, first time customer who had received a "free" piano (except for the moving of course--$350). The piano was garbage. I ended up in a 45 minute discussion with the person about why they should cut their losses and just go out and buy something else, how they might do that, other options. I suggested they think about it before paying me for a major pitch raise and several repairs to even get the piano just below the level of non functional. They offered to pay me for the time I spent talking with them but I decided not to and just let it go. They insisted on giving me a nice bottle of wine (which I accepted), and I gave them my card, told them to call me if they had any further questions about what to do or how to go about it. There would have been no charge for that phone call either, btw. To make a long story short, they ended up asking me to help them buy an old Steinway shell on which I did a complete restoration to the tune of over $30,000. Why? They said later that they felt they could trust me because I clearly wasn't just trying to collect my fee and go merrily on my way but rather was interested in helping them to make the best and most informed decision that addressed their needs and best interests. Since then they've sent me two other customers for similar projects one of whose piano is currently in my shop. Would they have done the same if I'd charged them for my time? Maybe. But there's no doubt that the relationship that developed in that 45 minute conversation was much more important than any message I might have sent about the value of my time. Fair, honest and ethical are certainly important qualities in being successful in a business. But it's not enough. Your ability to establish and maintain relationships with people is no less important and when opportunities to do that arise you will be best served by making sure that the customer believes you are focusing more on their needs than your own. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Gerald Groot Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 7:17 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] age-old question of what to charge for almost nothing Oh come on David. I thought we were done with this? You do not appear to be getting it. Of course I explained that to them. I omitted that from this conversation for the sake of keeping the email shorter as it was already too long. To them, it didn't matter and here's why. I had done a repair on a good customer's piano that I had been servicing for many years. This person was a music teacher who gave me a lot of referrals so I did the work as sort of thank you for about half the price of what I charged the new client. The new client's repair was very similar to the music teachers repair. The music teacher had told them in advance what I had charged her. Even though I had already told the teacher that I was doing it for about half, the new client expected the same price but did not receive it. Regardless of any explanations I gave to the new client, she didn't think it was fair. That's where I'm coming from on the freebee issue. Giving away free services to one client and not to another is walking on pretty iffy territory in my opinion. What you are doing is no different from what I did with my client. Now, take note that this took place well over 30 some years ago and is why I no longer do it. Since then everyone receives the same hourly rate and the same service call charge. David, what I see happening continually in this business and sometimes in this forum bothers me and is wrong. 1. Some technicians like yourself continue defending yourself to the point of picking my email apart with little to no regard for my points made that this is a business and should be run as such. Shall I return the favor to you? 2. I see and hear many technicians constantly complaining that they can't make a living. Why not!? If you're new that's different. If you live in an area where there are not a lot pianos that's your choice. But, if they are well established like I am and still complaining which many of them are, then they need to be taking a very serious look at what it is they are either doing right or doing wrong. There is no excuse for us not to be able to make a very decent living in this business if we are fair, honest and ethical. Making a trip out to someone's home to retrieve a pencil for less or for nothing for the sake of possibly getting a new client? No thanks. If I am going to get the client I will get them from having a good reputation. Jer _____ avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100115-2, 01/15/2010 Tested on: 1/16/2010 12:32:04 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2010 ALWIL Software.
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