For what it's worth, when I first got to Hawaii, I saw a lot of DC under the pin block, and I moved them under the piano, where I thought they were supposed to be. But then the other tuners told me that putting them under the piano doesn't do any good, but they are needed in the action cavity. We put DC's under the pin blocks because there is enough humidity in the air, and it never gets cold, so the air, and subsequently the pin block, never dries out. What the DC does do is help keep the moisture out of the action, and thus keeps the centers free. I have noticed, however, that a lot of grands without a DC in the action cavity, do have sticking centers. Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT Piano Tuner/Technician 94-505 Kealakaa Str. Mililani, Oahu, HI 96789 808-349-2943 www.Bleespiano.com Author of: The Business of Piano Tuning available from Potter Press www.pianotuning.com -----Original Message----- From: William Truitt <surfdog at metrocast.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Sun, Jan 31, 2010 1:37 pm Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness Hi David: I agree with you that the 15 watt damp chaser bar under the block is unlikely to destroy it, and would perhaps to some degree loosen the pins in a desirable fashion. How much and whether that would be enough is another question. My point was that such use would not necessarily be viewed favorably by a manufacturer. I recall a few years ago I had installed a d. c. unit in a Steinway in a church that had significant and tuning destabilizing issues due to excessive humidity and then dryness. It quieted the pitch movement down as expected. Some time later in an unrelated matter, the church music director had a conversation with the area Steinway dealer, who advised her to remove it because it would damage the piano, and told her that it was Steinway’s position that these units did more harm than good if improperly installed. Therefore, they advised against the use of them. I thought that was idiotic, but that seemed to be their official position. I agree with you on more radical (actually more sensible) solutions if not under warranty. Les will have a selling job to the manufacturer , to be sure. Still the effort should be made; nothing ventured, nothing gained. He needs to charge appropriately for his time ASAP, for sure. Or decline to work on the piano in the future. Will From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Love Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 4:45 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness No respect needed I was being somewhat facetious which is why I introduced it as “if you’re brave”. I figured people would get it but evidently not. If the manufacturer considers tight pins a warranty issue then send it back but good luck with that. Otherwise it’s the customer’s problem and the tech’s job to help them find the best solution or just live with a difficult piano to tune. If the block is truly not tunable and if it’s not under warranty then I don’t see the problem with more radical solutions. I can’t imagine a 15 watt bar under a delignit block destroying it under any circumstances and might be worth a try in the short term until a more thorough approach is considered, like restringing or removing pins, reaming and driving them back in. Or, you could just pawn the job off on your least favorite tech in the area (that’s a joke too, btw). David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of William Truitt Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 12:06 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness With all due respect, David, I think that’s a bit of a dangerous recommendation. I understand why you are recommending it from the point of view of shrinking the wood by drying it and therefore expanding the holes to make the pins looser. But the dealer and manufacturer might look askance at this, saying it ruined the block, thus making it Les’s problem, even a potential lawsuit – in other words, an out for them and bigger trouble for Les. And the repinning, without the manufacturers blessing and approval as a solution to a warranty problem; could otherwise void the warranty to the piano’s owners. It’s up to the manufacturer to decide how to approach this as a warranty service problem. That begins usually by having the dealer’s technician come out to appraise the situation, advise the manufacturer’s tech rep, and then follow through with a solution. That solution might be having the dealer’s technician come out to perform a warranty repair such as repining, or sending the piano back to the factory for repair, or replacing the piano with a new one. All this, of course, is dependent on the dealer and manufacturer’s willingness to follow through. If the dealer is distant or recalcitrant, sometimes an independent technician can contact the manufacturer directly and work out the solution path. I’ve done that a number of times before, as have many others. It has been my experience that, once you establish to the tech rep that you are not a blithering idiot and actually know what you are talking about, that they will work with you towards a meaningful solution that addresses the problem and takes care of the customer. But back to my question- doesn’t > the company selling the instrument have responsibility for a number of >years? Ask them. We don't make the call. Ron is right. Ask them. That’s where it all begins. Nobody who has responsibility here, the manufacturer and the dealer as their representative, can begin to address the problem and seek a solution until they know about it. Often they will want your experiences in writing. Strictly speaking the company selling the instrument does not any warranty responsibilities as guarantor, they serve only as an authorized intermediary as part of their dealer agreement. Les needs the church’s blessing (sorry, I couldn’t resist the pun) to act as their agent in dealing with the dealer or maker. If the church does not want to bother, then that’s their call. But if that were to be the case, then he should be charging appropriately for that 4 hour tuning. Usually that gets people’s attention when the cost is twice as much every time. Will Truitt From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Love Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 1:35 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness If you feel brave you might try sticking a dampp-chaser rod right under the block and see if that doesn’t open it up a bit. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of wimblees at aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:54 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness Les I doubt if the church will spend the money to repin, much less restring. Tell the minister of music that the pianos are untunable, and tell him to have the dealer send out his tuner to solve the problem. Wim -----Original Message----- From: Leslie Bartlett <l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Sat, Jan 30, 2010 2:39 pm Subject: [pianotech] tuning pin tightness A local church bought three pianos, roughly topping out at $200,000. Two are Estonias. On one the pins are so tight they pop, most of the quite loudly making it un-tunable for all practical purposes. These are about one year old. What would you recommend as far as some action regarding the piano? I’m afraid of twisting pins to breaking point. thanks les bartlett -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100131/3136d6f9/attachment-0001.htm>
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