I have found over the last 35 years of full time tuning that music teachers for the most part, do not always follow through with recommendations. Offering free tunings for them does not necessarily mean recommendations for us. But, it does mean free tunings for the teacher. Once they receive their free tuning, they tend to "forget about us" and could use any number of excuses as to why we did not hear from their students. On top of that, they still have to convince the students parents who most of the time could care less, because they do not play it themselves, to tune it and most often, they will not. If you insist on giving the teacher something, you might consider offering them $10 per referral off from the price of your tuning. This would be AFTER you actually tune their students piano. You would not pay them this in cash but rather would deduct it off from the teachers next piano tuning. This $10, would be per year, per recommendation up to the cost of a tuning. You might have better luck with that. Jer From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Ilvedson Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:16 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] 2nd Bad Client in 10+ Years - Seeking Advice If I was going to do something that I would, I would stipulate after so many referals the free tuning can kick in. I don't think that is good policy, though. David Ilvedson Pacifica, CA On Mar 24, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Gregor _ <karlkaputt at hotmail.com> wrote: Hm, perhaps I expressed that wrong. For some teachers I tune for free. Sometimes I even don´t know if a customer is a teacher or not. But when it comes to the question of brokerage/commission when I sell pianos to their students because the teacher recommended a certain piano or my store in general, I tell them that I don´t pay brokerage but will tune their private piano for free. Fortunately piano teachers ask very seldom for brokerage. Obviously this system is not well known here in my region. So, I don´t advertise that I tune for free If you are a teacher :-) Gregor ------------------------------------------ piano technician - tuner - dealer Münster, Germany www.weldert.de _____ From: davidlovepianos at comcast.net To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 06:23:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [pianotech] 2nd Bad Client in 10+ Years - Seeking Advice Free??? Wow, that’s generous. I just reviewed my database and there are 63 teachers on it. At twice a year for me that’s a giveaway of over $20,000. I offer a teacher discount of 10% and they are very appreciative for that. I would caution others to think it through carefully before adopting your practice. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Gregor _ Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:47 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] 2nd Bad Client in 10+ Years - Seeking Advice Terry, I guess every advice to your case has been written. I would like to say something general concerning teachers and appointments: I never give any discounts, but for piano teachers I tune for free. I give them a little bit of my time and am hoping that they recommend my service to their students. I make appointments at a certain time, but tell the customer that this time is a rough estimate, plus/minus 30 to 45 minutes. That sounds better than saying between 10:00 and 11:30. Gregor ------------------------------------------ piano technician - tuner - dealer Münster, Germany www.weldert.de > From: mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:28:07 -0400 > Subject: [pianotech] 2nd Bad Client in 10+ Years - Seeking Advice > > I'll try to make this as short and clear as I can. A piano teacher > calls me asking $$ for tuning. I tell her my standard fee. She asks if > I give discounts if she can get some of her students pianos for > tunings. I said I don't discount. She asks again. Business is a bit > slow due to economy. I said that I do discount $10 off a tuning for > churches or other organizations with multiple pianos where I can > submit one invoice. She asks if I can do that for her and her > students. I want more work, so I relent (yeah, yeah, you know where > this post is going, don't you?)...... Okay, standard $$ less $10 for > you and your students - if we can get them to schedule on the same > day, etc. so it works well for me. Agreement reached. > > First of all, it took me three visits to tune her Yamaha upright (nice > piano). First visit I raised the pitch about 15 cents (she did move > the piano from out of state, and was somewhat flabbergasted that it > was off pitch because she has it tuned every year). While raising the > pitch, about 15 little children showed up along with about 5 young > mothers - kids screaming, TV blaring, moms chattering - you get the > picture. I told her I could not tune her piano with all the noise - > let's reschedule. She agreed and apologized for the noise - the new > appt. would be noise-free she said - we set it for a few days away at > 4 PM - I told her it would take me an hour to tune her piano. I was > over on the far side of town that afternoon on appointments and ended > arriving at problem piano teacher (PPT) at 4:30 PM. She let's me in > the door and asks why I wasn't there at 4. I told her my schedule and > work got me here at 4:30 (with an apology). She said she had a date > with her husband at 6 and needed to start getting ready at 5. I said > okay. She said she was uncomfortable with me in the home after 5. I > said "okay, I understand, I apologize for the confusion, let's > reschedule - is tomorrow at X okay?" She said that would be good. Show > up for the third time (Saturday afternoon - she had a recital that > evening and I wanted to be sure to have her piano tuned for it), give > the nice Yamy a darn good tuning. She wrote me a check for PR + Tune > less $10. > > Before I left, she asked me if I could fix her player unit (disclavier > (sp?)) - turned out it worked okay, but after she played a bunch of > pieces, I asked her if that was a quiet at the unit would play (the > best it could do was approaching forte!). She said yes, that was as > quiet as it would play - and then added that level was as quiet as SHE > could play the piano. I said something like "I'm sure you can play > quieter", she said no. I opened the piano lid and looked at let-off. > Most hammers were letting off at 1/4" to 3/8". I explained about > action regulation and how excessive let-off would make it difficult to > play quietly. She said she understood and that my explanation made > sense. I told her if she ever wanted to improve the performance of her > piano, we could schedule an action regulation. She said she would > think about it. Great. > > So the next day I tune the piano of one of her students. This was the > Funky-Case 1959 Wurly console I posted about yesterday. This piano had > seen A LOT of HARD playing - like it had been in a southern Baptist > church for many years. The entire middle section of keys were low (key- > leveling low), for whatever reason, let-off was about a micron away > from the strings (those notes that went through let-off), excessive > lost motion, and needless to say, the entire mid-section of the action > had bobbling hammers. You could get most of them to strike the string > once if you really whacked the key, but most of them would bobble on a > medium blow. All hammers were deeply grooved. Several hammers were > flat because their center pins had walked out and they moved > erratically (wildly). Another 8 or 10 were very loose and you could > see the pins had walked. Another dozen or so felt okay, but you could > see the pins walking. An old stick & wire repair on a hammer shank > fell off while I was testing things. > > I discussed the piano ailments with the owners. The player was a young > child playing only a few months. I recommended three levels piano > improvement: 1) replace piano now; 2) do minimal regulation and repair > to make the piano functional and reasonable for a beginner student and > then replace piano within a year or two; 3) if the piano were not > going to be replaced, then I recommended full action regulation and > repairs. Hubby asked repeatedly if we shouldn't do the full monty > anyway, I said that was fine, but that if they were going to replace > it within a couple years, that I could make it function reasonably > well for half the full monty cost. They agreed to the minimal > regulation/repair approach to restore function. I told them I would > call them to schedule the work. > > Before I left, I raised the pitch of the piano 50 to 90 cents and > spliced a bass string that broke during the pitch raise (man, that was > the loudest break I have heard yet!). Told them we could settle up $$ > when I complete all the work. > > Except for three trips to tune PPT piano, sounds okay so far - right? > > So, yesterday evening, PPT calls and leaves message - "How come you > are charging Mrs. Funky Case (FC) $X to tune her piano when mine only > cost $X/4?" PPT apparently played the FC piano when they bought it > ($300) a few months back - she concluded that the piano played just > fine. I called her back after waiting for the smoke to stop coming out > of my ears....... I explained to her about action wear and regulation. > Fortunately I was able to incorporate what PPT and I had talked about > with the excessive let-off on PPT Yamy. I also explained that half the > notes on FC piano had gone so far out of regulation that they were > bobbling (multiple strikes) AND that several hammer/butt assemblies > where FALLING OFF AND that another dozen were very loose. She > explained to me that FC didn't even want to tune the piano, but that > PPT had told FC that the piano was sooooo far out of tune that she > really should have it tuned (wow, imagine that). She told me there was > no reason to do any more work on FC piano that what I did to her piano > (PR + tune). I bit my tongue and said that was fine with me, but that > the piano was untunable as notes were bobbling and hammers were > falling off and were not even hitting a number of strings and that I > would not be able to tune the piano. Goodbye! (I was maybe a tad > huffy, but given the situation, I think I kept it quite reasonably > under control.) > > Okay. There it is, that brings anyone that has read this long diatribe > this far up to the current situation. I'm of two minds: 1) Do not do > any more business with PPT or ANY client spun off from her AND, when > someone calls asking for a discount, tell them YOU DON"T DISCOUNT > PERIOD!!!!; or 2) Do whatever FC wants and try to make them as happy > as possible. Mrs. FC and Mr. FC really seemed very nice and concerned > about having a decent piano for their children (four) to play. > > Believe me, I have no problem at all walking away from ANY work > related to PPT and her spin-offs. I value peace and low stress in my > life. BUT, I would like to help them if they want to have their > children playing on a functional piano. Can anyone think of an > approach to convey to Mr. & Mrs. FC that I'm not trying to rip them > off, that their piano is worn to the point of disfunction, and that it > will be a detriment to their children's piano progress and experience > to have to practice on that piano in its current condition. Heck, I > don't really need to take the action back to my shop to repin a dozen > action centers - the main reason I was going to take the action back > to my shop was that I was going to file the hammers at no charge - > that didn't need to be done to restore function, but I just couldn't > stand it! > > I find this situation bizzare. I knew it, I knew it, I knew it. Right > after I got off the phone with PPT when we set our initial > appointment, I walked over to my wife and told her about the discount, > and I said that I just know something really funky is going to happen > with this teacher. I know I shouldn't have given her a discount, but > with business being a little on the slow side, I'd rather tune several > pianos at $10 off rather than zero pianos at full price - but I just > know something bad is going to shake out from doing this. > > Any suggestions to help four kids get a functioning set of keys under > their little fingers? > > Oh, and, I have not yet called FC back to pick up action (since PPT > told them there was no reason to repair/regulate their piano). > > I'm glad this list is here for venting. I feel a bit better! > Thanks! :-) > > Terry Farrell > > PS, I hope there are not too many misspellings and grammatical errors > in this post. I usually re-read before sending, but in this case, in > an effort to not get all steamed up again, I'm just going to hit send > now! > > _____ Ein Postfach für Alles – bei Hotmail 5 <http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M1003HM5Adressen> E-Mail-Adressen online verwalten! _____ Alles in einem Postfach – Ich will <http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M1003Hotmail> Hotmail! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100324/1aa32a21/attachment-0001.htm>
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