> Speaking of tuning octaves, maybe I'm not as good as you, but often times when I check a note by playing it with one an octave lower, it sounds OK. But when I check that same note with a note two octaves down, and especially two octaves and a third down, I can hear that the note is not in tune. Why do you suppose that is? (Oh I'm sorry that makes 4 questions). That just means, you are not done because they are not in tune. Duaine Exactly, Duaine. You seem to think that by "hiding" the upper octave note, it's in tune. Believe me, I get that upper note to sound as pure as possible, just like you do. But guess what, it's not. Maybe you hear it as being in tune, but trust me, nine tmes out of ten, it's not. Just because you can't hear the beats, and can't hear that the piano isn't in tune, doens't they aren't there, or that the piano is in tune, no matter what your Cybertuner tells you. Have you ever considred that maybe, just maybe, a piano could be even more in tune than what your ears tell you, or even what the Cyvertuner tells you? I'm sorry but putting all your trust in a machine just doesn't cut it for me. And let me be sure I understand this right. You tuned a piano that was 300 cents low, using your Cyertuner, in one pass, and you said it was in tune? Is that right? Wim -----Original Message----- From: Duaine Hechler <dahechler at att.net> To: pianotech <pianotech at ptg.org> Sent: Wed, Feb 2, 2011 5:33 pm Subject: Re: [pianotech] Thanks and further comments On 02/02/2011 08:47 PM, tnrwim at aol.com wrote: Speaking of positive comments, would you be so kind as to answer three questions. One, why are you so against learning to tune aurally? I - TRUST - technology, I grow up with it. My first PC was the IBM PC ith the 8088 processor, circa 1983. My mentor was and still is (on occasion) an aural tuner, however to save ime and his ears (don't want this debate again) switched to Cybertuner. Repeating myself, being with him on many service calls - I - TRUST - ybertuner. Again, repeating myself, I don't see the need - when I - TRUST - Cybertuner. Second, when you sing barbershop, do you use an ETD to stay in tune, or do you use your ears? I use my ears and being in it for 34+ years, I know what it sounds like nd what to listen for. We basically have roots, thirds, fifths, octave roots, and "barbershop" evenths (C, E, G, Bb) AND, to stop this idea dead in its tracks, yes, these checks can be done n a piano - HOWEVER - with the voice, you don't have to "tune" out alse beats, echoing from neighboring notes, noise from the plate, esonating strings, etc. And that's it - no 9ths, 12ths, no counting beats, etc. You - just - hear - it. AND, you can't compare "tuning" your voice and tuning a piano. Third, you tune unisons by ear, and you check octaves by ear at the end of a tuning. Doesn't that bother you? After all, you have to listen to the beats. How awful that must be for you. First of all - NO - I - DON'T - listen for BEATS. I listen to make sure the octaves sound like one note - just an octave part - just like in unisons - make them sound like one note. Just like in barbershop music - the same note just an octave apart. And this is where I came up with the name of "pure octaves" (don't want o start this debate again). To me, a pure octave, is where the high octave note is hidden in the ower octave note. (??probably equal to no "stretch"??) I other words, if I play A3 (880) and A4 (440), the A4 is hidden (not eard separately) within A3. Now if I hear "beats" or warbling then I see it as out of tune. Also, in other words, if A3 and A4 are perfectly in tune, then if I aise the dampers and hit A3 then A4 should start to vibrate. Speaking of tuning octaves, maybe I'm not as good as you, but often times when I check a note by playing it with one an octave lower, it sounds OK. But when I check that same note with a note two octaves down, and especially two octaves and a third down, I can hear that the note is not in tune. Why do you suppose that is? (Oh I'm sorry that makes 4 questions). That just means, you are not done because they are not in tune. Duaine -- uaine Hechler iano, Player Piano, Pump Organ uning, Servicing & Rebuilding eed Organ Society Member lorissant, MO 63034 314) 838-5587 ahechler at att.net ww.hechlerpianoandorgan.com - ome & Business user of Linux - 11 years -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20110203/4c73dd29/attachment.htm>
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