On 2/6, 11:59 AM, Gerald Groot wrote: > > I tune for a lot of recordings. I > also use my EDT for many of them > having saved many of my aural tunings > in it. > Same here. Pianos that I tune often are saved on my Cybertuner, and that's where I start from. But on subsequent touchups, often there are times when the conditions that both you and I describe make it impractical - if not foolish - to use an ETD. The additional time that it takes to re-calibrate the darned machine for pitch drift is unnecessary - if I am going to stay with the pitch drift anyway - so why bother? I have yet to run into a situation where the drift was such that intervals became noticeably distended. If I ever do - maybe I will whip out that Cybertuner... So far hasn't happened, on concerts or recording sessions. Time is a factor in many recording sessions - they want me to be done quickly and let them get back to work. Aside from the additional costs, there's issues of limitation of access to the space (there are rehearsals and performances scheduled in concert halls and services in churches), basic fatigue (recording sessions can run over 12 hours - and a tuner fussing around with some gizmo when he or she ought to be working on the piano will not be quite the hero of the day...) And who knows how tolerant recording artists whom I don't know are of ETDs at any given session - prejudice against electronic tuning is a fact, among artists, other musicians, "civilian" piano owners as well as among tuners. I am not about to go on a crusade against it in the middle of an important gig. I have had enough unpleasant encounters where I had to do a lot of convincing that the final arbiter is my ear... I am a confirmed ETD user who was trained aurally - but adopted my first ETD soon after. Dr. Albert Sanderson - who sold it to me personally and spent some years after fixing its "glitches" (I got a "lemon", took years to find the faulty relay that acted up every few months) - kept stressing the importance of using it as an aid, and not a crutch. So I am capable of doing without its assistance when it is advisable (or required by the circumstances). And in my opinion, every tuner worthy of that designation should also be so capable - or sooner or later (no matter which segment of the marketplace they service) they will run into situations that will damage their professional reputation and the image of the entire profession. Yes, even if they service "low end" instruments. But that's a topic for a discussion that I would rather see go away than feed further... Israel Stein > There are many instances where out the > clear blue, someone turns on the HOT > stage lights and things start to > travel around in the tuning. If I > strictly followed my EDT's > advice,sometimes,I would be changing > the whole darned middle sectionagain > and again. That is when it is time > for some give and take to take place. > Imight listen to the EDT but, I always > alsolisten to what my ear tells me to > dotoo. Most often, the majority of a > section changes together but, not all > that much. Enough that we can give and > take a little bit > toaccommodateaccordinglywithout any > problems. > > As Israel mentions,"use an ETD under > those circumstances - staying with a > gradual drift and fixing whatever > stands out as a bad interval or unison > is far the lesser evil than jerking > everything back to where you started > from..." > > Jer > > -----Original Message----- > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org > [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On > Behalf Of Israel Stein > Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 2:02 AM > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] Octaves & Unions > > Susan, > > Yes, I have done recording sessions. And > > most of them were not in studios (though > > some were) - but in concert halls, > > churches, sound stages - get my drift? > > And yes, lots of opportunities for drift > > in pitch. And there were times where I > > actually had to come in and sub for > > another tuner - where they had to leave > > - so who knows what the original tuning > > was like in terms of stretch, etc. And > > who says there is opportunity to "take > > your time" etc. - there are often > > engineers and others such getting paid > > union scale per hour - with overtime (as > > with the Boston Chamber Music Society), > > so a tuner fussing around with the piano > > when they are ready to record again > > ain't going to be cheerfully put up > > with... So yeah, you figure out where > > the piano is at, fix the "oinkers", try > > not to make too many severe changes if > > you can help it... That's what I was > > taught by experienced recording session > > tuners who called me in to sub for them > > - which is how I got into that line of > > work. If some people get to tune in > > climate controlled studios, well, that's > > a nice luxury. Check some album covers > > and CD jackets - and you'll see that a > > lot of recording is done outside > > studios, to take advantage of hall and > > church acoustics... Some of Peter > > Srekin's recordings come to mind... > > The first time I ever did a recording > > session was at the Methuen Memorial > > Organ Hall (outside of Boston). It's a > > hall that was built especially to house > > a reconstructed 19th-century organ, with > > wonderful acoustics - which is why > > people like to record there - but no > > insulation whatsoever, against weather > > or against sound. We literally had to > > re-record every time a car drove by > > (it's on a quiet street, but cars do > > drive by occasionally). Pam Emerson > > tuned the piano to begin with, but the > > session ran way overtime and (being a > > mother) she had to leave. So I took > > over... The instructions I got from here > > is how I tuned recording sessions after > > that - as I describe above. And I got > > the same instructions from others > > afterward. After that I had occasion to > > tune in the Boston University Concert > > Hall after midnight - when it was used > > as a recording site - at the Skywalker > > Ranch sound stage here in California > > (which was used for recording by > > Harmonia Mundi, and I was subbing for > > the regular tuner who had to go to his > > daughter's birthday party) and at a > > bunch of small studios around here - in > > all of these places pitch drift was a > > concern. I wouldn't dare to use an ETD > > under those circumstances - staying with > > a gradual drift and fixing whatever > > stands out as a bad interval or unison > > is far the lesser evil than jerking > > everything back to where you started > from... > > Israel Stein > > > On 11:59 AM, Susan Kline wrote: > > > On 2/4/2011 4:39 PM, Mr. Mac's wrote: > > >>> > ... This is where you have to trust > > >>> your ear 100% - an ETD is worse than > > >>> useless, it could get you in real > > >>> trouble... > > >> In my opinion this comment is > > >> baseless. The only way an ETD > > >> could get you into real trouble is > > >> lack of understanding. > > > Well, I don't have direct knowledge, > > > but I could imagine how things could > > > come undone. > > > > > > Recording studio, cool in morning, > > > piano in tune with ETD. Lights, lots > > > of action, studio gets warmer, piano > > > shifts just a cent or two ... and some > > > unisons get banged out enough that all > > > three strings are different places, > > > though not by much. > > > > > > ETD wants to put them exactly where > > > they were in the early morning, but > > > two or three tracks recorded right > > > around lunch time are at the shifted > > > pitch already. > > > > > > Maybe someone who has done recordings > > > can weight in? I get the feeling > > > Israel has done this? > > > > > > Susan > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20110206/8ff82828/attachment.htm>
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