[pianotech] Amplification Definition. Was: ( CA pinblock with tight bushings?)

Nicholas Gravagne ngravagne at gmail.com
Thu Feb 17 19:45:39 MST 2011


Hi Mark,

Whew! There is a lot to sort through here. Will get to it tomorrow or
the next day in hopes of satisfactorily answering your questions.

NG

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Mark Schecter <mark at schecterpiano.com> wrote:
> Hi, Nick.
>
> Thanks for presenting this definition, I appreciate it, and I think it is
> generally helpful. But I would like to raise some questions about it, in the
> interest of clarity. I am not an engineer or physicist, but I am a tech and
> musician who's been thinking about these questions for a long time. I
> present these thoughts hoping to clarify and improve the usefulness of your
> definitions, and I welcome your corrections to any misstatements I might
> make, or misconceptions I may be trying to apply. That said, ...
>
> You say: "... thus in a broad but accurate sense the piano string’s
> uncoupled and feeble attempt to excite large zones of air demonstrates a
> very low amplitude."
>
> If I may say, characterizing the string as attempting feebly to excite large
> zones of air, puts the emphasis in the wrong place. The string is not
> attempting anything, it's just vibrating. That its ability to excite much
> vibration in air is small, is true. But coupling it to the soundboard does
> not raise the energy level/amplitude of the signal. What such coupling does
> do is propagate the vibration to many more air molecules than the string
> can, due to the soundboard's much larger surface area. But the energy was
> never feeble at all, in fact it was always entirely sufficient to the task.
> It just needed to be transferred to a material whose form and structure was
> better suited to moving air, in order to transmit that vibrational energy to
> the listener's ear as sound. But the basic form of energy, mechanical
> vibration, has not changed - only the material or medium through which it is
> propagating has changed. (Or so I would assert - is any of this wrong?)
>
> Later you say: "Any device that converts one form of energy, say
> vibrational, to another form of energy, say sound, is a transduction device
> or transducer."
>
> I think this statement obscures the fact that sound already IS vibrational
> energy, and therefore there is no transduction needed. The only difference
> between vibrating string and vibrating air is in the material that is
> vibrating, metal to wood to air to eardrum. What IS needed is efficient
> propagation of that vibrational energy, from the source (string) through the
> bridge and soundboard into the medium (air) which the soundboard provides.
> Of course, the soundboard is temporarily the medium as well, but only as a
> link in the mechanical chain from vibrating string to vibrating air to
> vibrating eardrum. Thus there is no transduction or change in form of
> energy, only a change in the physical characteristics of the vibrating
> material or body. (Or am I conflating two actually different forms of
> energy? If so, what is the difference?)
>
> Later yet you say: "We can say that the job of piano sound amplification is
> to take the weak vibrational signal of the uncoupled string (low amplitude)
> and “boost” it via coupling in order to generate a powerful signal (high
> amplitude). It doesn’t matter that additional energy is not present for this
> to happen."
>
> Again, I would say that this mis-characterization as "weak" actually
> confuses the issue, as the vibrational signal is inherently as strong as it
> needs to be to cause its ultimate intended result, sound. It is only "weak"
> in its ability to move air, due to its small surface. When we connect it to
> a large surface, voila', without adding energy, we create sound (vibrations
> in air) of much larger (apparent) amplitude. I am saying that coupling does
> NOT "boost" the signal - it merely broadcasts it much more effectively.
> Thus, the soundboard is less like an amplifier, and more like a mechanical
> broadcast antenna.
>
> You go on: "Still, an analog to electrical amplification exists in that a
> ppp blow to a key can be barley audible; now add more energy with a fff blow
> and we have increased amplitude, hence more amplification with the attendant
> volume and power."
>
> Here, I feel that the analogy to electrical amplification is also confusing
> as presented, because amplification takes the SAME signal and makes it
> larger, whereas your example contrasts a smaller original signal with a
> larger original. This is not analogous, as it happens at the source, not the
> broadcast end of the chain.
>
> I do agree that it's perfectly acceptable to call the soundboard an
> amplifier for purposes of explaining to lay customers what it does.
>
> So, what do you think of these thoughts?
>
> Thanks, and all the best,
>
> -Mark Schecter, RPT
>
>
> On 2/17/11 10:05 AM, Nicholas Gravagne wrote:
>>
>> ENERGY TRANSDUCTION VS SIGNAL AMPLIFICATION
>>        ,,, a simple statement by
>> Nick Gravagne
>> Thursday, February 17, 2011
>



-- 
Nick Gravagne, RPT
AST Mechanical Engineering


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