I don't think I'm hung up on anything other than a rejection of the "woo woo" aspect of tuning as it has been presented. There is an art to it, of course, but there is also a science. I don't understand what you don't get as suggested by your question about my kids not learning to write or do basic math. What I said was that they both use computers and word processors and still learned to do the math and writing. The tools didn't get in the way. The suggestion has been that the using an ETD prevents you from gaining the aural skills. I think that's a false supposition. While some may allow it to get in the way that's not the machine's fault. And contrary to a popularly expressed opinion, I don't think you need to become a skilled and complete aural tuner (if that's what you mean by craftsman) before you can go out and try and make a living tuning pianos. Moreover, I think it's arrogant to suggest it (and some have). While I won't argue that having fully developed aural skills isn't a great benefit and that a person who doesn't have them might not get caught in a situation that is compromising or revealing, say the machine breaks down or they have to make a judgment call on a poorly scaled piano and aren't as equipped as they should be, then they might pay the price for that in some way. Perhaps they won't be called upon to tune very high end pianos belonging to demanding customers or do concert work. But then their lack of experience and a resume even if they did have aural skills might disqualify them in those cases anyway. But if you can manipulate the tuning hammer and pin effectively and can tune solid and stable unisons, then whether or not you can set an aural temperament or aurally stretch the piano perfectly by ear the required amount should not disqualify someone from going out and trying to make a living. How successful they are will ultimately depend on how they continue to develop their skills and knowledge and how much care they put into their work, just like the rest of us. I can recall attending a class by Jim Coleman who was telling us about a student he was guiding who was learning to tune using a machine. He had reached the point (after about four months) of tuning sold unisons by ear but still relied heavily on the machine for the rest of the tasks. He (Jim) had no problem with sending that person out into the real world at that point and neither would I, and neither should anyone else, in my opinion. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: Ryan Sowers [mailto:tunerryan at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 7:45 AM To: davidlovepianos at comcast.net; pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] The big discussion David, I think your hung up on something, and I can't quite figure it out. Many of us have said multiple times during this discussion that a ETD is a powerful tool in the hands of a craftsman. But you have to become a craftsman first! On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 6:22 AM, David Love <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> wrote: Except that kids use computers and still learn basic math skills, they use word processors and still learn handwriting and with all the new player mechanisms kids are still learning to play the piano. So much for that theory. So much for that theory? So your kids didn't learn to write, or do basic math?? You're losing me here. Using an etd doesn't mean you stop using or developing aural skills. It just gives a visual reference to what you are hearing and offers several other useful features which have already been enumerated. Machines like cybertuner offer a very interesting graphic display of the tuning curve that I find makes the process more fun, more interesting, more informative and enhances my awareness of what it is that I am hearing. It reminds me of the rollingball website where the HTs are given a graphic representation. By looking at them you don't hear them but it gives you a visual, structural framework that can enhance your listening experience. The same is true with etds. Any technology can be abused at the expense of the foundational skills required to use it most effectively but it's an irrational fear that causes one to run from it or not embrace the benefits for that reason. I'm not "running from it". I have actually told my clients that some day I may show up with one. But like yourself, I believe I will have "earned the right" to use it. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com (sent from bb) _____ From: Les Koltvedt <t4348lk at yahoo.com> Sender: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 05:28:24 -0800 (PST) To: <pianotech at ptg.org> ReplyTo: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: [pianotech] The big discussion Ryan, this one paragraph struck a note with me...(pun intended.) Well said and inspiring, thanks. Les K LK Piano (734)657-7034 From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Sowers Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 9:30 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] The big discussion .... Since we have calculators should our kids not have to learn their times tables and other basic math skills? Since we have computers should we not learn how to write with pen and paper? Why do we learn to play piano, when we can pop in a CD and listen to a world class performance at the touch of a button? .... Ryan Sowers -- Ryan Sowers, RPT Puget Sound Chapter Olympia, WA www.pianova.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20110128/df031888/attachment-0001.htm>
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