Bill This is EXCELLENT. Thank you. Dean _____ From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Bill Fritz Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 4:54 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Counts ....... Susan, you made the following statement (below). Let me make sure I understand you correctly... When the "Tune-off" occurred between Jim Coleman Sr (ETD only) and Virgil Smith (Aural only)... the general conclusion was that the tunings were a tie... both times that they attempted this challenge. Right? I believe Jim Coleman Sr was using a SAT tuner... a generation or two behind today's RCT or Verituner or TuneLab (which is engineer speak for today's tuners being more comprehensive in their inharmonicity analyses). An ETD in the hands of Jim equaled the Aural tuning of Virgil's. So with Virgil being one of the premier aural tuners in his time, in what way was the ETD's tuning quality limited? In some cases we've already heard from other tuners who say an ETD's tuning of a poorly designed spinet is better than the aural chasing of the same piano. Are you perhaps referring to an unlimited time period used to tune a Concert piano?... vs pounding out 4-5 pianos a day, 5-6 days a week? I can partially understand your comments on the former, but certainly not the latter. I sincerely doubt that the bulk of RPT's punching out 4-5 pianos a day, 5-6 days a week can ensure their tuning would always pass the RPT Tuning test, like the ETD can facilitate. And finally, if the Tuning committees admit that using an ETD on all parts of the Tuning exam would yield scores approaching 100%... then how is that ETD tuning limited? Personally: I think there are several different issues being bounced around throughout this series of threads... 1) which can produce a better tuning -- ETD or Aural (I'll say both & neither... it depends on the hands & ears guiding the tuning hammer) 2) which method gives you a better "A440"? A tuning fork or an ETD? Let's take 100 of each, calibrate the forks & ETD's, and then over the next 2 months test the "A440"s tuned, under various temperatures, environments, etc. I'll bet $50 on the ETD. 3) if both can produce very good tunings, then in light of the highest tuning importance being a) stability, then b) unisons, then c) octaves, then d) temperament... it would seem that it should be an individual's choice as to whether one could or should be an Aural vs ETD tuner, since stability & unisons are determined by the Technician's competence, rather than an argument of the ETD vs the 4:2 stretch. 4) if one could pass the RPT Tuning test w/ an ETD (and at least understand the concepts & why's of beats & 4:2's etc), then why doesn't the PTG allow a 100% ETD test? 5) if both RPT's & Associates both pay the same dues, when why is one group "Taxed without Representation"? 6) if new tools become available which can equal or surpass "the test", then why are we completing the test the old way? (I'm sure as heck not going back to cursive writing... typing is far superior for me.) 7) if we are going to be considered "professionals" like Issac Stein mentioned in his recent PTJ editorial... a) why are RPT's not being re-tested on a regular basis... like the Professional Engineers & their licenses (every 2-4 years, depending on the State) he refers to? And b) why no "continuing education requirements" such as Natl or Regional PTG conventions or minimum number of Chapter Technicals attended for an RPT to maintain their "status"? Teachers & Engineers have these requirements... as well as other "professions". 8) if today's RPT Tuning tests are indeed what anyone must pass to become an RPT... then how is that status impacted by Jim Coleman Sr's statement in the Tuning Examination Source Book foreward (reprint 2002) "We set our scoring and tolerance system so that 80 percent of our present members (Craftsman) would pass at a grade of 80 percent"... implying that 20% of those remaining grandfathered RPT's would fail today's test... So Susan, other than trying to understand your "ETD's are limited" comment... I also wanted to put on paper the other sub-issues I think I hear... and that should be addressed if this PTG organization is to grow & improve. Continuous Process Improvement. Similar to the piano itself... a Technician is either improving themselves, or going downhill. "What are you doing for your own improvement, lately?" PS A hearty THANK YOU for this pianotech group's comments, arguments, and thoughts: I have certainly appreciate each & every constructive opinion on the various topics... and I for one appreciate the sharing of info & wisdom by the many. It helps me to become a better Technician. Best Regards... Bill Fritz, St Louis From: Susan Kline <skline at peak.org> To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Counts .......Duaine Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:17:04 -0800 SNIP>> Everyone here has said the same thing over and over: the ETD tuning quality is limited unless you have the aural capacity to see whether or not the machine is giving you what it should. There are many circumstances where what the ETD tells you has to be adjusted for the particular piano you are tuning. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20110129/aff659d1/attachment.htm>
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