Ed, David, I may be off the mark here, but what I do to determine where that B must go, and I must qualify, a guitar with a low action, a reasonable, quality guitar (speaking strictly acoustic here) and a great height in frets and spacing, is the chord harmony at the beginning of the neck, up to and including the 12th fret and beyond Comprising the open tunings, simple chords, single note picking that I do makes what I desire to hear nigh impossible to say, "Oh, yeah". So I live with what is, or continue to spend more money in a field where I make no dough. Duh, no more of that :-) It is such a tough thing to find an instrument, discounting unlimited financial resources, that meets the criteria I would like to have in every position of the neck of a guitar. And I am strictly an amateur guitar player. Apparently, there comes a time when professionally speaking, a person has to move on with the reality of things. Keith On Jan 31, 2011, at 9:56 AM, Ed Foote wrote: > David asks: > >>Can you elaborate on that Ed. I do know what you mean but would like to hear your procedure re stretching the fourths. > > 1. Beginning with the G string, play it against the Bb(2nd fret A string), compare it to the Bb-D(open D string). > Make sure that the 3rd is slower than the 6th by whatever amount that still allows the D-G fourth to beat less than 1 Bps. (After finishing the tuning, this value may be re-evaluated). Check that the D-A(2nd fret G string) > is acceptable. > 2. Using the 1st fret F on the lowest E string, repeat the process with comparing the A string to the D string. > Check that the A-A( 2nd fret G string) octave is clean. > 3. Play the low E and A strings together and bring the E up until you can hear a beat just disappear, but leave it wide rather than pure. Check the E-E( 2nd fret D string) octave is clean, it will be wide but you can't hear it. > 4. E-E-E is now available, tune the top E string to make a clean octave. > 5. Place the B so that the B-E fourth has less than 1 bps and you will usually find the G-B third is beating,(at least on my '46 D-18) around 5 or 6 bps. You're done! > Some guitars will allow more stretching of the 4ths, and a slower third,(Gibson's come to mind). The procedure allows us to tighten the fourths up for a brighter sound, or stretch them out for a third with a little less attitude, but keeping that B string under control is strictly a function of the 6th that it splits. > > These are just some 3rd-6th tests to place the four fourths in a slightly wide position. This allows the G-E sixth to be small enough to allow the B string to find a happy home between them. When I see a guitarist using the harmonics to tune, they always get the fourths either pure, though, at times, a narrow one will get in there. The result is that the G-E sixth(formed by making the E octave), is too wide to allow the B to make an acceptable third and fourth at the same time. > Chet Atkins had an epiphany when I showed him this. His comment was, "Dang Ed, that is about as clean as this guitar has every played". His own aural tuning was pretty close to this, though there were not many like him around here. (he wasn't a fan of WT on his piano, though). > hope that helps. > Ed
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