[pianotech] Stuff Which Should Really Be on PTG-L

[Dale Erwin]

Will
 Thanks for leading the charge on this. Either we have a voice, rights and privileges for being members or we don't. So If we have a voice, we speak. Compromise is the way to preserve relationship. We each give a little. 
 
  Dale I've been at this 40 years. I don't do politics,.. I teach and exhibit, given tuning test, chapter pres. etc. etc.
   I have also as amny on this list, contributed voluntarily to the educational knowledge base on this list hundreds/thousands of man hours of time as have SO many . To say to many of us to.." get involved"  is not seeing the rest of us as you see your self. We are involved and engaged. Our voices are asking to be heard on two issues.
  Many of us have given up as countless hours doing other jobs in the organization as those men that you mention.  It doesn't make us ungrateful for those that do the political job. That's there gift of service.

 Dels point and mine is that there is only so much I am going to give, or any family man is going to give up without some compensation, including you and the other guys that serve.  Its reality. 
 Thanks for what you do!

 

 

Dale S. Erwin
www.Erwinspiano.com
209-577-8397
209-985-0990
Ronsen hammers/prep
Sitka Sound boards
Belly packages

 Poor decisions are rarely made right by a greatercommitment to them. 
  "David Love"


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Encore Pianos <encorepianos at metrocast.net>
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:22 am
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Stuff Which Should Really Be on PTG-L



Hi Dale:
 
With respect, I think that the discussion is taking place exactly where it should – where the largest number of participants are going to read  it and respond to it.  Given the huge number of posts on the topic of the new forum in the past few days, clearly this is a topic of importance to many.  If it were on PTG-L, likely far fewer people would be aware of it.  For myself, I don’t make a point of frequenting PTG-L and probably would miss a good deal of discussion there.  I doubt that I am the only one whose reading habits are like that. 
 
I simply do not understand what you mean when you say participation in this listserve are down because fewer posts are on topic or piano related?  Keeping posts on topic has always been a problem with the old format, yet many of those strings of posts ran incredible lengths and garnered many participants.  Excepting the large response generated in the last few days discussing the forum’s future and shape, the number of posts period had dropped dramatically once the new forum was implemented, even when you combine the new and old formats.  Some statistics showing the number of posts, taken from the archives that demonstrate the pattern of which I speak:
 
January 2011 – 1872
 
February – 1480
 
March – 1139
 
April – 345
 
May – 235
 
Even taking into account the normal ups and downs of  participation, it seems clear that the implementation of the new format hugely dampened participation – from March to April, the drop was 70 percent.  In March, there was a huge amount of discussion, questions, and complaints on the new forum that swelled those numbers.  May’s numbers were a mere 12.5% of January’s.  If you were to read all of the posts on this topic in the last few days, it is hard to conclude anything but that there is broad dissatisfaction with the new format.  Yes, there have been defenders who have written in, but they are few by comparison.  So I don’t believe that your argument holds water.  
 
The workaround to keep the listserve going for a while would be good, while PTG sorts this thing out.  I think we should not be putting any more time and money into the migration into the new format until the direction we will take is clearly established.  Many of us are for cutting our losses and dumping the new format.  But that does not mean that we are simply against any change.  I recognize and accept the problems that the old list has had and will continue to have.  One solution in the short term would be to pay someone to do the housekeeping of the old listserve, since we are paying out money each month for the new format in administrative and other costs.  Your point about the very hard work of volunteers is well made, but that said doesn’t make the Higher Logic program a good one, and does not change the fact that it is so unsuccessful in attracting or holding participants that it has greatly shrunken the use of the Forum by PTG members.  My interest is in keeping the Pianotech Forum vital and healthy, which it is not presently.
 
I am all for finding a really good e-mail program that will meet all of our needs and be widely accepted and used.  From what I know about the Higher Logic program, it is used by other groups and has been around for a while.  So it seems telling that it remains very flawed and buggy, and the interface is not likely to morph into something that listserve readers are going to like and want to use anytime soon.  So, let’s move on to something better, after taking the time to do the research and testing to emerge with something that most of us will like and want to use.  If that new program is not something that can be integrated with the other new software, so be it.  It is more important to keep the Forum alive.
 
Will Truitt
 
 
 
 
 

From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Dale Probst
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 12:02 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: [pianotech] Stuff Which Should Really Be on PTG-L

 

Hi Alan et al,

 

Whoever told you $10-$50 would do it was misinformed. I think dues would have to double for the convention to be free. With a  large increase we would lose a significant percentage of the membership that makes a moving target that is hard to calculate but that's my best guess. Doubling dues won't have much effect if half the membership resigns

 

I've been reading a lot of posts and have a few comments which I'm sure won't be received in the spirit they are intended but here they are. First, participation in this listserve is down because fewer posts are on topic or piano related. There have been more piano related posts on the new site that's why some of us have spent more time there. Second, I believe some workaround compromise will come about to keep the lists going longer. My question is how many of the people who have complained are ready to serve as admins or do other thankless jobs to keep these antiquated listserves going? Don't bother telling me how much you dislike the Higher Logic site and that these listserves are perfect. I heard complaints for years about these listserves and their jumbled digests, archives and other issues when I was on the Board. 

 

On the topic of instructor reimbursements- it's simple math. With registration prices lower this year, less could be reimbursed to instructors because the budget of PTG depends upon income from the convention to pay bills.  I understand that instructors put a lot of time into presentations, I've taught before. Board members put in a lot of time also, as do examiners and other volunteer members. Del hit it right on the head when he said PTG was a volunteer organization that was built by a generous spirit of volunteerism. I can tell you first hand it still is and we are still building. How to get from a totally volunteer organization to one where some folks get reimbursed has been a problem that we have yet to solve. I do know that it will never be amenable to everyone, no matter what we do.

 

As to "the absence of some of our finest independent instructors" at the annual PTG convention- these will be the first classes I've have had a chance to attend to since 1997 and I'm looking forward to them. There are new classes and new faces and that is not altogether a bad thing. Do I wish some of my old friends would be there? You bet! I also wish that my friends could find some value in attending these new classes whether they were teaching or not. I've been at this 30 years and I've yet to find a class that didn't make me a better tech for attending. I'll grant that some do more of that than others but the worst I ever attended was pretty darn good. 

 

I wish you all the best and I hope to see some of you in KC. 

 

Dale

 

PS Please keep in mind that these folks some of you are criticizing so vehemently are volunteers you elected who take time away from their families and work to serve. In my experience Board service at the RVP level takes a month out of your year and it don't get better if you move up to the Executive Committee. If you really feel motivated to make changes, sign up and get involved. I can tell you from personal experience, one motivated person can make a difference.

 

Dale Probst RPT
Registered Piano Technician
Ward & Probst, Inc.
www.wardprobst.com
dale at wardprobst.com
 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Alan Eder
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 6:01 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] teaching money,(was Irritated )
Hi Mark, 

 

I am deeply concerned about the absence of some of our finest independent instructors at this year's national convention.

I would also rather pay higher dues and/or registration than to see the quality of instruction diminish, but I'm also sensitive to the needs of beginning technicians who may truly have trouble affording the cost of attending. 

I recently heard that someone (named Carl Lieberman?) calculated that with a modest increase in dues (was it $50? or $10? Carl?), convention registration could be free to all comers.  Sure, everyone would still have to get themselves there and pay for a room (hey, you have to eat whether you are at home or on the road), but this would enormously increase the incentive to attend conventions ('cause it's already paid for--take it, or leave it).  This approach, coupled with the kind of respect, both verbal and monetary, exemplified by some of our better one-day seminars and regional conventions, could enable the nationals to not only return to their former glory, but to surpass it by showing that we truly value excellence in instruction and seek to promote our own professionalism.

 

I appreciate your involvement in this issue and thank you for taking the time to hear me out.

 

Alan Eder
 


 
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