<html> <body> Jim, Yeah, I was joking.  This was a Steinway upright in relatively good shape moved to a castle up on top of a mountain near Aspen where RH could drop to low single digits and then climb again to something approaching normal in rainy weather.  There were hammers dragging on each other and keys doing the same.  I strongly recommended a Dampp-Chaser system and eventually installed it (something like 5% on the day I tested it).  All the action problems resolved and the tuning pins tightened up to a much better torque. I install these on grands too, sound board protection and tuning preservation.  If the piano is covered more is benefited, humidity will cycle through a closed piano too, just not as well as an upright. Andrew At 12:13 PM 3/18/2004 -0500, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Hello:  What do you mean by hammers uncrossed?  thanks  Jim Dally <dl> <dd>----- Original Message ----- <dd>From: <a href="mailto:anrebe@zianet.com">Andrew & Rebeca Anderson</a> <dd>To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech</a> <dd>Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:54 PM <dd>Subject: Re: Loose tuning pins on a Samick <dd>Daniel, <dd>I'm all for Dampp-Chasers on pianos but if the bass tuning pins are already that loose I'd say the damage is already done.  I've installed DCs and had loose tuning pins firm up and crossed (not quite) hammers uncross in an upright.  If the grand piano were covered with a DC you would get more benefit.  There usually isn't a direct opening from under the soundboard into the action area for direct exposure.  Humidity will cycle through the wood environment and it will get better than it was.  Undoing the damage is another issue.  Preventing further damage would be the reason for an install.  That would have to be balanced against the current value of the piano and the cost to repair it.  Something you and your customer are in a better position to discuss. <dd>CA glue is a quick and cheap way to fix loose tuning pins.  It generally is not the preferred method for decent to good grand pianos.  If you elect to do this, be sure to protect the action stack as CA glue can find its way down through the smallest of holes and do a number on it.  (Tape foil up to the pin-block from underneath if you can't leave the stack out for a day.) <dd>Others here can give you more experienced advise on plugging, drilling and re-pinning or going up two sizes in pins etc. <dd>Good luck, <dd>Andrew <dd>At 08:42 AM 3/17/2004 -0800, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite> <dd>I tuned this particular Samick grand for the first time the other day (5 foot 7 inch, model SG-172). Before I started, the customer said the last technician mentioned that some of the tuning pins were loose in one section, and that it wasn't holding a tuning well. One of the first things I noticed was how warm and dry the room felt. I asked the customer about this and she said this room was always the warmest in the house. The piano, by the way, is situated between two central air ceiling vents (about 2 or three feet from either end of the piano). <dd>So I went ahead and tuned the piano, figuring I would check the tightness of the pins as I went. Most of the pins were on the looser side but still held except three pins in the bass. I would pull them up to pitch, and they would fall flat as soon as I let go of the tuning hammer. <dd>I bought a hygrometer and placed it on the beam underneath the soundboard, intending to go back every day or two and measure temp and humidity, as well as checking to see how well the tuning holds in each section. <dd>Is this a common problem in Samicks, or could it just be lack of humidity? <dd>Will solving the humidity problem (by installing a Dampp-Chaser or putting a humidifier in the room) help tighten up the pins enough to cause the loose bass pins to hold? <dd>I'd prefer to install a Dampp-Chaser (my first installation), but I don't know if she wants to spend that much. How well would a humidifier work? <dd>I heard that replacing the strings might be the thing to do if repinning the block (if so, bass strings only or bass and treble?). Stan Kroeger (former Samick service manager) seemed to think using larger pins alone would solve the problem, but others say use epoxy. ??? <dd>How much should I charge if I repin the block and replace the strings? (And I'm assuming flat fee.) <dd>Should the customer bother asking the local dealer where she bought it about whether Samick or the dealer itself would take care of the problem? The serial # is 8707327. According to the Pierce Piano Atlas, the piano is 16 or 17 years old (I think I did the math right). I failed to ask her about a warranty. <dd>I've been reading through postings on this same subject, and I hear so many different opinions on what to do about this type of problem. I'm not sure what to do. <dd>Any suggestions and help are greatly appreciated. <dd>Thanks <dd>Daniel Carlton</blockquote> </dl></blockquote></body> </html>